The Official Religious/Political Debate Thread (show, quote)

[[MERIT]]

Originally Posted by swimintheundertow

Abstract ideas based on individual's morals. So man can't be either because it's an opinion. Subjective things can't be used objectively, basically.

No sh*t, but since I was talking to mikey, then it would be based on mikey's idea of what is "good" or "evil". so how bout lets let mikey rebut this one.

[swim]

You said it's as simple as the difference between good evil. [ "It comes down to whether you think man is naturally good, or naturally evil. With or w/o society, if man is naturally good, then they wont just randomly kill w/o remorse. If man is naturally evil, then they will. Its as simple as that"]

Men killing or not killing is a definite thing. Good and evil is not. That is what my post refered to. I don't see how it matters who you're talking. It interperets that you said killing is wrong and not killing is right.

[swim]

Originally Posted by oojay

Not counting other factors, such as influence or free will, that seems theoretically sound. But there is a problem with that. Everyone's DNA is different and unique to them (with the exception of some identical twins and such) so the thinking is fundamentally flawed.

Do you acknoledge the existance of propaganda?

[[MERIT]]

Originally Posted by swimintheundertow

You said it's as simple as the difference between good evil. [ "It comes down to whether you think man is naturally good, or naturally evil. With or w/o society, if man is naturally good, then they wont just randomly kill w/o remorse. If man is naturally evil, then they will. Its as simple as that"]

Men killing or not killing is a definite thing. Good and evil is not. That is what my post refered to. I don't see how it matters who you're talking. It interperets that you said killing is wrong and not killing is right.

Geeeeez, are you thick. Im not gonna say it again. Go look at the first 3 pages if you wanna know my views on killing. *shakes head*

[[MERIT]]

Originally Posted by swimintheundertow

Do you acknoledge the existance of propaganda?

Of course, but just b/c you disagree with a religion doesnt mean thats its just propaganda. it simply means that you have a different view point


Now can we just agree to disagree about everything and let it rest? Or shall we go on for another 10 pages? Your call.

[swim]

I'm not talking about propaganda about anything specific. I was being real general basic dictionary/social studies definition. I never mentioned religion.

But if you don't believe in propaganda at all I guess Stalin really was a stand up guy.

[[MERIT]]

Originally Posted by swimintheundertow

I'm not talking about propaganda about anything specific, I never mentioned religion.

But if you don't believe in propaganda at all I guess Stalin really was a stand up guy.

You posted it after mikey talked about being force fed religion, so it was natural to assume that you meant religious propaganda. My mistake. And I said that I did believe in propaganda, so Joseph Stalin doesnt really factor in here.

[swim]

Originally Posted by oojay

Of course not, but just b/c you disagree with a religion doesnt mean thats its just propaganda. it simply means that you have a different view point


Now can we just agree to disagree about everything and let it rest? Or shall we go on for another 10 pages? Your call.

Originally Posted by oojay

You posted it after mikey talked about being force fed religion, so it was natural to assume that you meant religious propaganda. My mistake. And I said that I did believe in propaganda, so Joseph Stalin doesnt really factor in here.

Well I don't know what you really meant but, you definitely said you didn't. Stalin does figure in because he used propaganda to make his country love him while he was an awful person. I was using an example to stress that propaganda is indeed real.



So ok, you acknowledge propoganda and believe in free will. If everyone tells you that jesus slaughtered babies and you never heard any other stories can you really choose whether you believe that or not? I mean it's all you've ever heard and it's the only thing you've ever heard.

Of course that's an absurb example but the thing is you can't decifer between truth and fiction sometimes. There might be individuals who "choose" not to believe but the majority will believe what they've always known to be true.

[[MERIT]]

Originally Posted by swimintheundertow

Well I don't know what you really meant but, you definitely said you didn't. Stalin does figure in because he used propaganda to make his country love him while he was an awful person. I was using an example to stress that propaganda is indeed real.



So ok, you acknowledge propoganda and believe in free will. If everyone tells you that jesus slaughtered babies and you never heard any other stories can you really choose whether you believe that or not? I mean it's all you've ever heard and it's the only thing you've ever heard.

Yes, I meant to say "of course", thank you for pointing out my typing error. And yes, people can choose to believe whatever they want, despite of how many options they are given.

[swim]

Let's go even more elementary instead of repeating the same thing of what I believe let's get down to the basics of your logic. Like to the ridiculously stupid. How do you make a decision? Seriously I want to understand how I can gain back my free will and make good decisions.