The Official Religious/Political Debate Thread (house, albums, members, track)

[DontRunMeOver]

Is there an equivalent word to antisemitism which describes treating Arabic people like ****?

[Trauma]

Originally Posted by DontRunMeOver

If America stopped acting as a global policeman in this situation, Israel would probably be screwed. They're surrounded by countries that hate them, countries that not too long ago had land taken from them to create Israel. Their military continually kills civilians in other countries in retaliation for acts which those civilians had nothing to do with, and the main reason they can do this is that America is looking out for them. If America closed its eyes to the middle east conflict for a couple of years and outright promised not to get involved in anything happening in that area, I wouldn't be surprised if all that was left was miles of burnt ground where Israel used to be.

Shouldn't that be where England comes in?
Anyway, that statement was more of a reply to Raine's post.

[DontRunMeOver]

Originally Posted by Snickers

Shouldn't that be where England comes in?

I don't understand.

Anyway, that statement was more of a reply to Raine's post.

Be that as it may(!), Israel is a country who's modern creation and continued existence was dependent upon other countries. Politically, they're not really in the position to act entirely as they like because their safety depends so much upon support from western countries (esp. USA, but also UK etc.). This support reflects upon those countries such that they could be held partly accountable for anything that Israel does.

[right-track]

Originally Posted by Snickers

Shouldn't that be where England comes in?

The British government won't interfere while the U.S. turn a blind eye.
The interests of both our governments are one and the same.
Blair won't want to upset Bush and in turn, Bush doesn't want to upset the Israelis.
Britain, the U.S and Israel want the same outcome...a weak, Arab middle east.

Originally Posted by DontRunMeOver

Is there an equivalent word to antisemitism which describes treating Arabic people like ****?

Yes, I think there is!
In the so called civilised world, isn't it known as "freedom"?

[riseagainstrocks]

What it comes down to is that Isreal for the past 60+ years has been bombed, attacked, mistreated, etc. and her only allies have been thousands and thousands of miles away.

The loss of innocent life is always regretable, but Isreal has finally said "**** it" and are striking back like they NEED to.

An agenda? Damn straight there is an agenda. It's called Operation Leave Us Alone Or We Will Destroy Your Country. And I back the hell out of that Operation.

[riseagainstrocks]

Originally Posted by Fal

Even in war, civillian casualties and attacks are unnacceptable and nothing other than acts of terrorism. Israel don't even bother to target Lebanese Military (who have about as much to do with the whole thing as the average Lebanese civvie) let alone pinpoint Hezbullan fighters.

War against terroist extremist is far different from conventional warfare. These "fighters" hide behind women and children, hide in hospitals, hide in mosques, hide in refugee camps. When Isreal trys to find and kill them, they run and hide, and when Isreal turns its back, it finds rockets launched at it. I really feel very little sympathy for the Lebanese right now. Hezbellah was formed with the intent of driving Isreal out of Lebenan. When Isreal left, the mission was changed to the destruction of the country. The Lebanese government tried to INDUCT the militants into the national army. THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME!

It's time people stopped looking at this conflict like everything starts with Isreal and look behind the scenes to why this is happening in the first place.

[right-track]

Israel has the right to defend itself, no-one should dispute that right.
However, the manner in which Israel goes about defending itself, leaves much to be desired.

British policy in Northern Ireland, faced with a similar situation with regards to the IRA, never reacted in such a way.
The thought of British troops shelling Dublin, with the loss of civilian life that is currently being illustrated in the Lebanon, defies logic and would have outraged the world had it happened ...and rightly so.

During WW2, if a German soldier was killed by an eastern European partisan, an entire village payed the price. There's an irony here that seems to be lost on the Israeli's.

[DontRunMeOver]

I just got an image of the Israeli approach to self-defense... when an angry man in a red top punches you in the gut, you look for a a woman wearing a red top and hit her over the head with a bottle. When the same man smacks you in the face, you find a small child in a red top and break its fingers. That's self-defense, Israeli style.

That was just an image that came into my head reading about Israel defending itself. Its not an argument, but I thought I'd share it with you all the same.

[Rabid Sea Turtles]

It all comes down to the fact that Isreal is a bully. Not only are they bullies, but they are fully funded and supported by the worlds biggest bully, The United States.
To put it bluntly, the United States is Isreal's bitch. They are a country slightly bigger than New Jersey, with one of the largest and most advanced militaries in the world. Who funded and provided for this military? Every United States President since Isreal's creation.
Hizbolla, is not Lebanon, Lebanon did not kidnap Isreali soldiers, Hizbollah did.
Why then, are the Isrealis attacking commercial, civilian areas of Lebanon? And how is that Justified?

Not only that, but for years Isreali troops have been stationed in other surrounding countries, and illegally at that. Hizbollah was created for the purpose of removing illegally station Isreali troops out of Lebanon. If the Isrealis want to start a fight, they need to start that fight with Hizbollah, not with Lebanon.

Isreal is wrong. Plain and simple. The sad part is, that the United States will undoubtably back Isreal in their terror reighn on Lebanon.

And PS: Raine, your "I'm ashamed to be an American persona is pathetic. "Some well-deserved bombings"..How stupid are you? The majority of the United States does not agree with George W. Bush, hence why he has an approval rating in the 30%-40% range. Do you think that you are the only person with your ideals?
America as a country, does not deserve to be bombed because our president is a loser. That is a stupid comment to make.

[riseagainstrocks]

1. Hizbollah is sheltered by Lebanon. Making them allies.

2. Isreal is doing what they have to to survive. You all seem to think that if they didn't fight anyone, they'd be left alone. The very hour the countries constitution was signed, Egypt and several other Middle Eastern states declared war. Why? Because they are taught to hate Jewish people. As long as Isreal exist, there will be conflict.

3. Terror reign on Lebanon? Hardly. Whenever an innocent man/woman/child dies it is a sad thing, and Isreal should attempt to be more accurate. But you all seem to forget that EVERY DAY there is suicide bombers from these radical extremist who BLOW THEMSELVES UP in crowded streets, cafe's, nightclubs, and other populated areas killing sometimes 1 and sometimes 10's or hundreds of people. Telling Isreal to be pinpoint accurate is SHEER hypocrisy and I'm shocked at many of you.

4. This is not to say that Isreal should fight at the level of these terrorist, but where the hell are your criticism of them? I haven't found one.

5. The U.S. being Isreal's bitch? What? Are you daft? The US has played a very small role in Isreal's politics over the last 5-6 years. Ariel Sharon was very against outside involvement. He saw this struggle as the Jewish people against those that hate them. He didn't come crawling to the US as some of you make it sound.

6. DontRunMeOver, your analogy has me confused. It should be when the man in the red shirt blows up the shopping center killing 20 children and their mothers, Isreal responds by acting on the best information possible killing the man in the red shirts co-conspiritors and the occasional accidental civilian. But of course BBC doesn't report that. You only hear how evil Isreal is oppressing the Palistinians and destroying Mosques.

7. Raine...you're simply and idiot. Read a history book. Or anything for that matter.