The Official Religious/Political Debate Thread (dancing, country, house, American)

[IamAlejo]

Bush never publicly denied what the book speaks about anyways, so he isnt saying its not true.

True...or maybe he just didn't think it was even worth commenting on.

another point, oil in alaska. contrary to popular belief, there's not all that much oil in there, certainly not nearly as much as is in iraq, syria or iran. plus, in case you haven't noticed, the world's oil supply isn't unlimited, and now more than ever there are more demands for stakes in the worlds oil supply. used to be that the US and a few other developed countries in the world were the main consumers of the world's oil supply. other countries used it of course, but nothing compared to the amount used by the US.

True, there is nto as much oil in Alaska as there is in Iraq. The US has oil stored bought in the 60's? Know that? Probably not. US and Alaksa use natural gas as a power source more than any other countries. US also uses coal as much as any other country. Also using Nuclear power plants, so trust me, Oil is important, but not as much as YOU think. Why do you think all car companies are searching for the Solar powered car? Maybe noticing the decrease in importance of oil? Just maybe.

Inform your self before you say the US has helped out more countries than any other country has. Ok, first of all, you have the greatest economy!

When people say stuff like that, it gets to me. That's like saying rich people should give more to the poor. "Robin Hood", true words from a democrat. Nice. If you've lived in the US, you would understand why we don't have universal heath care. Increase taxes by a cent and you hear people complain, it just won't happen.

Wow, i just read the rest of what you said. The Crusade, it sounds like a Canadian. Idiotic, so I'm not even gonna respond. Haha, this made my day. I gotta go send this to people. It takes a true conspiritor to think of something like that. Good stuff...

[IamAlejo]

Foreign Aid in the United States increased by 5% in 2002, for whichever idiot said we haven't increased foreign aid.

In 2002, we donated 15,000+ million (about 15200) in foreign aid.
The next closest was Japan, with 8,000+ million (about 8400).
Canada is about 2,000+ million (around 2300)

So we almost double any other country in foreign aid. Trust me, if we cut these aids, we could be out of debt in reasonable time. But everyone would complain if they didn't get their aid, yet they DO complain when we want to have a say in what goes on in their country? Why, we give you the money, we SHOULD have a say in what goes on. Otherwise, don't take the money.

In 2002, Americans privately gave 34 BILLION dollars overseas. So add that to the older number, and you see alot of money going around. Gotta go get dinner though.

[Thrice]

Damn...i think ill reasd this when im REALLY bored.

[IamAlejo]

Truly we should move it or close it. This is the punk music forum...this is general discussion. I don't know why it was started.

[shadowsniper]

Originally Posted by IamAlejo

Wow, you can't expect me to read anything about what you just said...though I will make an attempt. Where to start where to start.......

That's why he gassed his own people? A wonderful man....Please don't talk about how wonderful a man Hussein is, it flaunts your ignorance.

The reason I say that I don't care about a foreigners opinion (other than the fact that I don't) is that many of you are force fed opinions in your news of America and Americans. It is ridiculous what your news is, just as our news. All news tries to show the best (or worst) of things. The fact that I live in a military town (the biggest naval base in the world is around the corner) makes a lot of opportunities open for me to ask friends and others what is going on. The military (especially the higher up) know more about what's going on than you or I will ever know.....Next quote

Well, we did support Castro during his revolution. We wanted a change, and it didn't work out. So we aren't allowed to put sanctions on people? Like OPEC did back in the day? Everyone uses sanctions to try to put others in a situation, hoping we can incite a revolution of Castro, since we are against Communism. Cuba=Communist, so we aren't going to support them. Common Sense. You make it seem as if it is all about "OIL". Explain to me why we didn't attack Saudi Arabia, which has twice the oil. Maybe we weren't satisfied with the weapon inspections going on? You say news skips things, and we forget quickly. Possibly you are forgetting, we did find Long Range Missiles that Iraq was not supposed to have because of UN sanctions. But I guess it's the UN's fault, who are they to impose sanctions?

First of all. His own people? Well if your concidering Kurds his own people... Kurds dont even concider them selves Iraqi. They are the largest ethnic group on earth without a nation. They happily would take over north Iraq to try to create their own nation. Why do you think Hussein gassed them? Because they revolted against him. No one has been able to impose law in Iraq before and they revolted against the British in 1920.

I present to you facts and you make it sounds like I am justifying him or making him sound great. If the facts are more justifying of his actions or make him seem better, maybe its because you had such a devilish view of him that when you hear something a little better then you think they are trying to make him sound like a god. Of course he is horrible, he tortured people. He would put explosive packages on people and blow them up in the middle of the desert (I know, I have video of it), he would tie people on poles and have firing squads shoot at them (I also have references to that), why dont try to twist my perceptions to try to make people think I am a Nazi, fascist or any other negative attachments. I at least support things with facts and dont present much opinion. Whos flaunting ignorance?

So if you think foreigners dont know much because they dont live here, how can you do the same and think they are force fed information? Do you watch their news? How do you know this? Please dont talk about others doing something you dont like and then do it; dont be a hypocrit.

Why dont you try to also see you are listening to propaganda your self, not from volentary news medias, but by government agencies like the military. Which one has more twisted reports? The military sells out wars and justifies them selves to try to make their soldiers moral higher. How dramatic would it be if a soldier totally didnt want to fight. If the news is negative, thats maybe because the negative is more important. Good news is there to be bathed in, bad news is presented to be fixed. Obviously there is alot of fixing to do recently. If you want to live in ignorance, thats fine. I dont though. If they are bad and you cant say something back by facts to oppose it, then its because its true.

The higher ups know about military operations, they dont know much about politics, economics, justifications, or other things that are more retrospective and wide.

With Castro, well we didnt want change in Cuba before. We already did that, it was during the Spanish-American war! If baptista was there, its our own fault. He was as worst or worst than Castro. So I guess your solution is to starve people into having a revolution? I think it does the opposite, it makes people hate the country impossing sanctions. Its always showed as superficial problems. Its simple, you dont like communist because they wont suck up to you, not because you care for their people. America doesnt really care for other people than its own interest. Why would they, I wouldnt really care for other peoples around the world if I was president, well not really, I would, but I have priorities. Its common sense. Why do we "support" or not have sanctions on China? They are communist... According to you, we should have sanctions on them too. Well they dont, why? Because they bring in the cash.

Dont ask me why we didnt attack Saudi Arabia, I already had like 3 paragraphs on all of that. If your open and want to learn, I suggest you stop being lazy and read my previous posts, why I posted so much is because I need to straighten things out. I see alot of superficial facts being brought up and the truth is never investigated. Go read now if you want to continue a debate on subjects like Saudi Arabia.

We werent satisfied with inspections in Iraq because they didnt have any. We were maybe convinced they had some because we only listened to these people who are from there that were interested in creating a war in their own profit. That truck container that was supposedly making chemical weapons was actually a farming truck for insectacides. Those barrels you found were also the same, I know, I could read the french labels on them. Maybe you could hire translators. Even your inspectors cant find the WMD. Of course they were probably hidding stuff, how would you react if a country that was going to attack you soon was checking out all our strategic stuff. So let me guess, we are going to take all your weapons away and we will then attack you... How do you want them to react?

I didnt forget those missiles he wasnt supposed to have. I am not an idiot and I dont have this problem with forgetting things like that. What did Saddam order when we found them? Maybe your forgetting. He slowly started destroying ALL of them. Oh, but then you still attacked and he couldnt use them against you. So that was smart of him I guess... The UN has no power any more, we can see how America has their finger on the UN. The UN couldnt stop your illegal war, how much power do u think they have. All these UN sanctions are because of how you control the whole Security Council. Anyways, sorry if I sounded like I am blaming Americans, I am not. I am blaming this administration. I live in America and I love it. I have nice friends and there are alot of nice people. Just a couple redneck ignorant people who live for the army and navy, and military might of this nation. Like those who support that star wars system. Its a stupid system that will fail when 1000 missiles are launched at once and only one of them contains a actual nuke and we can only destroy 10% of them. Anyways. To you now chap.

[shadowsniper]

Originally Posted by IamAlejo

True...or maybe he just didn't think it was even worth commenting on.

True, there is nto as much oil in Alaska as there is in Iraq. The US has oil stored bought in the 60's? Know that? Probably not. US and Alaksa use natural gas as a power source more than any other countries. US also uses coal as much as any other country. Also using Nuclear power plants, so trust me, Oil is important, but not as much as YOU think. Why do you think all car companies are searching for the Solar powered car? Maybe noticing the decrease in importance of oil? Just maybe.

When people say stuff like that, it gets to me. That's like saying rich people should give more to the poor. "Robin Hood", true words from a democrat. Nice. If you've lived in the US, you would understand why we don't have universal heath care. Increase taxes by a cent and you hear people complain, it just won't happen.

Wow, i just read the rest of what you said. The Crusade, it sounds like a Canadian. Idiotic, so I'm not even gonna respond. Haha, this made my day. I gotta go send this to people. It takes a true conspiritor to think of something like that. Good stuff...

Waw, u obviously dont read things completely because u would of already know I am a Québecois. There is a difference if you would know what it was. I was showing an example, but I guess you cant read or take things and understand them for what they are for. Um, I live in the US as Thrice knows too. I guess you again didnt read. The reason we dont have electric cars is not because we dont know how to build them but because Ford, GM, and other car companies have implications with Oil companies and would lose money. Not only that, but you would have to change all the gas stations and convince them that building these new pumps would not make them lose money and its an actual investment that will grow. Thats hard.

[shadowsniper]

Originally Posted by IamAlejo

Foreign Aid in the United States increased by 5% in 2002, for whichever idiot said we haven't increased foreign aid.

In 2002, we donated 15,000+ million (about 15200) in foreign aid.
The next closest was Japan, with 8,000+ million (about 8400).
Canada is about 2,000+ million (around 2300)

So we almost double any other country in foreign aid. Trust me, if we cut these aids, we could be out of debt in reasonable time. But everyone would complain if they didn't get their aid, yet they DO complain when we want to have a say in what goes on in their country? Why, we give you the money, we SHOULD have a say in what goes on. Otherwise, don't take the money.

In 2002, Americans privately gave 34 BILLION dollars overseas. So add that to the older number, and you see alot of money going around. Gotta go get dinner though.

Why dont you give the private funding # from other nations?

Of course you send more money, you have more money and can afford to give more. Are you expecting the dominican republic or Haiti to give more many then you? Of course not, Canada cant afford to give much more than that either. We have universal health care. If you take it in purportion to the GNP though, you can figure out that the US could be giving more.

LOL, like 15,000+ million will take you out of debt!!! HAHAHA. Hey, not long ago we asked for a extra 85 BILLION on just Iraq, the war will have cost us way more than 200 BILLION to date!!! Hm, you, debt is coming from somewhere. Oh and we are asking for more money now, more than 20 BILLION till the elections for Iraq, because we need more armor now on Humvees and we need replacement parts, oil expenses, helmets, etc. The debt is around 4. something TRILLION, um, yeah, look at those previous figures and tell me something. Obviously your talking above what you know.

[shadowsniper]

Originally Posted by IamAlejo

Truly we should move it or close it. This is the punk music forum...this is general discussion. I don't know why it was started.

Thrice and I decided to start it. Its fine, Thrice is a moderator and he approves. Plus, its titled Bush Debate, so its not hard to figure out whats being discussed.

[Thrice]

he means punk section should involve music, hes right. but i was thinking anti-flag, and nofx when i posted...so theres my incorporation of music.

[IamAlejo]

Why dont you give the private funding # from other nations?

Couldn't find the numbers, just public funding for all, which was majority larger for US. Also, I would care to bet that US has more private funding...wanna take it?

Canada cant afford to give much more than that either. We have universal health care.

Jeez, why do you care so much about yourself. You should give to the poorer countries. [end sarcasm] That's what would happen if we did the same thing. Double standards Rule!!! You say 15 billion a year wouldn't add up. Especially when we gave billions of dollars after World War 1, and millions of dollars after World War 2.

True again that the US would take a hit if we switched from oil (or decreased importance of oil) but the idea of becoming more self-dependant (which I hope we become) is truly more important. Gas stations would not need to switch, they would be terminated.

What did Saddam order when we found them? Maybe your forgetting. He slowly started destroying ALL of them. Oh, but then you still attacked and he couldnt use them against you.

Ugh, obviously you did forget. We found these weapons after we invaded and were searching through Iraq. Dip****.

The higher ups know about military operations, they dont know much about politics, economics, justifications, or other things that are more retrospective and wide.

The higher-ups know more than you think. A lot more, so don't talk about friends of family like that. People make it out to seem that military don't want to be there, they don't have support, families want their children back home. In Norfolk, we want them to stay and finish the job they have started. It will costs more lives to leave than it will to finish. And I believe we will do this, even IF Kerry is elected. What makes you think another President will do better? Or is it the "Anything but Bush idea".

And bringing back an old topic, you said that Bush Senior was not as book smart as Roosevelt or something to that extent. I was comparing him to recent Presidents, like the last 20 years. But that's okay, twist away.

Sanctions are justified on Cuba, and there is truly nothing you can say about that. We have found the testing labs for WMD's, we have found human testing sites for WMD's, we have found what we believed we would find. News media says we have not "found WMD's" because they don't see a huge pile of nukes lieing around. I'm not reading the rest of what you said, because it's beating a dead horse. And to say there is an incorporation of music is a joke. Tell me one musical thing said in here about a band. There isn't. You post in the mod only forums about others making off-topc posts, yet this is the same thing. You want people to share your views so you put it here.

I'm done with this thread, because it has no point in this forum. But please keep on twisting facts, maybe you can change the mind of an eight year old out there.