The Official Religious/Political Debate Thread (techno, alternative, country, rock)

[brokenheartsandfallenhero]

Yea pal you go watch your newscasts and believe every word you hear without hesitation and if I want to play peacemaker/middle man I sure as hell will this is a debate without a intermediate party its crap. These facts arent irrelavent either and America is so full of conspiracies that its sickening I could go on for days on things that can be tested and proved if somebody would just take the time, and dont talk down to me man I respect you and your socialist viewpoint now you have to respect me and my constitutionalist viewpoint

[shadowsniper]

Originally Posted by brokenheartsandfallenhero

Yea pal you go watch your newscasts and believe every word you hear without hesitation and if I want to play peacemaker/middle man I sure as hell will this is a debate without a intermediate party its crap. These facts arent irrelavent either and America is so full of conspiracies that its sickening I could go on for days on things that can be tested and proved if somebody would just take the time, and dont talk down to me man I respect you and your socialist viewpoint now you have to respect me and my constitutionalist viewpoint

I respect your reply. You just sounded a bit hostile, thats all. No harm done though. Reply accepted anyways. Conspiracies arent proven though and debates are difficult as they are, it makes things alot harder to manage.

[brokenheartsandfallenhero]

sorry if I came across as hostile I just have strong feelings about Politics and as with anybody I grow angered when they are mocked, but I suppose that is infantile so whatever lets try and remain decent and humane throughout

[IamAlejo]

I doubt I will be posting much more in this thread, because I have argued my points with actual relative facts

Jibber jibber jibber, how can you call it facts when you are talking about Bush's point of views on things. That he wants more oil, that his administrators do. You have no idea what they want, but it is your speculation, or opinion, on the matter. You say something about a Terrorist armageddeon, but I've never heard Bush say anything about that. So is he lieing, or maybe you?

No one in the free world has any feelings of sympathy whatsoever for the animals who paraded the US soldier's bodies through the streets, or celebrated the deaths of innocent americans, but those people are not the majority of iraqi's.

Those animals, which I agree with you calling them that, are the people we, as in the American military, are searching for. These animals are being housed by the innocent civilians, with a majority probably with their free will. We are trying to take the fear out of the lives of the innocent people. A majority of people in Iraq will admit to being afraid of Hussein's rule in Iraq. We, using physical force, are trying to remove that fear, and it has turned out to be more difficult than expected. Yet the situation is not yet done, and I have confidence that my government will end up helping those people. I may be wrong, but so could you.

Its not like your more of an angel with you thinking most Arabs are terrorist or that Iraq had WMD and that they supported Terrorism.

Actually, Iraq had the plants for WMD, testing facilities, and the long range missiles (which they weren't supposed to have by Guidelines). So yeah, I would say I believe that Iraq had WMD and I also believe that Iraq supported terrorist. Funny thing is, I believe that UN countries supported Iraq AFTER the UN bannings. There were missiles found to be from Russia in Iraq, one's that they weren't supposed to have, that had been shipped after the bannings took place. Keyword is after, I ALREADY KNOW that we helped them during their conflict with Iran.

Republicans are going towards anarchy more so than a democrat

....Because Democrats want millions of social programs completely paid for everyone in the country yet funded almost completely by the 5% of people in the United States. That's right, 95% of taxes are paid by 5% of the people in the US. Yet people get so angry when there are talks of the high income people getting tax breaks.

In retrospect Clinton did wonders for our economy but represented America in a less than favorable way.

To have an impact on the economy ,it takes a couple years for your actions to have an ACTUAL impact. Didn't seem as Clinton's did much, as the early years of Bush's reign were the bad years of the economy. The economy is actually on a slight rise within the past year. And yeah, you are right about representing in a less than favorable way. Getting sucked off in the Oval Office isn't the greatest idea.

The first time I've agreed with Shadowsniper all thread. Conspiracies are the most retarded thing ever. But I have to say, the whole think about Napolean invading the USSR is kinda pointless, comparing the two. Technology different, ways of getting supplies are different, and even more big differences. Not a good comparision.

[shadowsniper]

Originally Posted by IamAlejo

Jibber jibber jibber, how can you call it facts when you are talking about Bush's point of views on things. That he wants more oil, that his administrators do. You have no idea what they want, but it is your speculation, or opinion, on the matter. You say something about a Terrorist armageddeon, but I've never heard Bush say anything about that. So is he lieing, or maybe you?


Those animals, which I agree with you calling them that, are the people we, as in the American military, are searching for. These animals are being housed by the innocent civilians, with a majority probably with their free will. We are trying to take the fear out of the lives of the innocent people. A majority of people in Iraq will admit to being afraid of Hussein's rule in Iraq. We, using physical force, are trying to remove that fear, and it has turned out to be more difficult than expected. Yet the situation is not yet done, and I have confidence that my government will end up helping those people. I may be wrong, but so could you.


Actually, Iraq had the plants for WMD, testing facilities, and the long range missiles (which they weren't supposed to have by Guidelines). So yeah, I would say I believe that Iraq had WMD and I also believe that Iraq supported terrorist. Funny thing is, I believe that UN countries supported Iraq AFTER the UN bannings. There were missiles found to be from Russia in Iraq, one's that they weren't supposed to have, that had been shipped after the bannings took place. Keyword is after, I ALREADY KNOW that we helped them during their conflict with Iran.


....Because Democrats want millions of social programs completely paid for everyone in the country yet funded almost completely by the 5% of people in the United States. That's right, 95% of taxes are paid by 5% of the people in the US. Yet people get so angry when there are talks of the high income people getting tax breaks.



To have an impact on the economy ,it takes a couple years for your actions to have an ACTUAL impact. Didn't seem as Clinton's did much, as the early years of Bush's reign were the bad years of the economy. The economy is actually on a slight rise within the past year. And yeah, you are right about representing in a less than favorable way. Getting sucked off in the Oval Office isn't the greatest idea.

The first time I've agreed with Shadowsniper all thread. Conspiracies are the most retarded thing ever. But I have to say, the whole think about Napolean invading the USSR is kinda pointless, comparing the two. Technology different, ways of getting supplies are different, and even more big differences. Not a good comparision.

AHHH, this forum is annoying, I wrote big reply that was mostly agreeing with you. It went away and asked me to sign in, WTF! Anyways, I am going to summerize. Thats true about the cold Russian atmosphere not really mattering that much nowadays. The world has become much smaller with globalization and technology has aided us in conquering new ground that was previously hard to even get too. I still think the cold posses a threat in war and training can really change the tide of war. Saying this, Russians live in this environment and are more accustomed to it. Hence its easier for them. Now on to WMD, I dont see which ones your talking about. yes there were some illegal weapons. WMD, I haven heard. What chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons have you heard about in Iraq? The labs they thought they found were not what they originally said they were. They were used for farming. I want to know what ur talking about, havent heard. Later.

[jibber]

alejo, this will be my last reply. go back and look at my other posts. i've stated countless facts and statistics. my interpretation of why bush wanted to go to war was an interpretation, based on facts and a very good understanding of the situations. I'll say this one last time. go back, and actually read mine and shadowsniper's posts with an open mind. I've stated all I need to say, and I've gotten tired of writing out verifyable facts only to have them ignored. keep on debating if you want, but as far as i'm concerned, this topic has exhausted itself.

[IamAlejo]

Your facts are flushed with opinions Jibber, and that's why it's hard to decide which are solid facts and which are facets of your imagination.

Shadow, I agree that cold weather would have an impact on a War, but with technology, if you were just trying to destroy, takeover, a country, you would not use land troops. That is why I think we are in a sense, trying to look out for the Iraqi people. If a takeover is what we planned, why not bomb it to nothing, then just go get our oil. We haven't, we have tried to preserve.

The WMD's I am talking about are human testing labs for biological and chemical weopons, where they tested on people. Also, all the materials and plans for nuclear boms. SCUD missiles, and many other illegal weapons they had but was not paid attention to by our "biased" media. But I do know what you are talkin about with the farming labs. I did not mean those.

[MobilizeTerror]

I came across this little thing today that counts the cost of the war in Iraq, and compares it to other things we could be helping with that money.

http://costofwar.com/index.html

As of me posting right now the cost of the war in Iraq is: $116,103,443,003

It compares it to:
PRE-SCHOOL

KIDS' HEALTH

PUBLIC EDUCATION

COLLEGE SCHOLARSHIPS

PUBLIC HOUSING

WORLD HUNGER

AIDS EPIDEMIC
WORLD IMMUNIZATION

Here is the code to put it on your site:

<center>
<!-- include cost of war javascript; this runs the counter -->
<script language="JavaScript" src="<A href="http://costofwar.com/costofwar.js"></script">http://costofwar.com/costofwar.js"></script>
<!-- the elements 'row' and 'alt' will be changed by the javascript to contain
	 the correct numbers -->
<div><b>Cost of the War in Iraq</b></div>
<div id="raw">(JavaScript Error)</div>
<div><a href="http://costofwar.com" target="_top">To see more details, click here.</a></div>
<!-- this line triggers the counter to start -->
<script language="JavaScript">
inc_totals_at_rate(100);
</script>
</center>

[ally]

woah...thats one of my main oppositions to this war, how much its costing us and how all that money could have been spent on something useful. i do wonder wtf bush is thinking at times...

[jibber]

makes ya feel all warm and fuzzy inside huh?