The Official Religious/Political Debate Thread (American, Russian, African, effect)

[All_Nite_Dinah]

Originally Posted by hookers with machineguns

FYI, I don't participate in campaigns or town hall meetings. I don't contribute money to Unicef or Red Cross or Feed The Children. Like most American citizens, I have grown skeptical of political campaigns and nonprofit organizations, because of rare, isolated (but well exploited) incidents of scandal. Dont blame me, blame media and Hollywood for negatively portraying the process I take advantage of everyday. However, I don't participate in protests or childish variations of civil disobedience neither. To me, government is not something to hate or love, it's something that is unfortunately necessary because of the limits of human decency. Anarchy is not plausible, that's obvious (at least to me). I am quite interested in politics, as an observer not as a participant. Is it crazy to think that people are entitled to form opinions about such politics? Nothing says we all have to agree. And, nothing says we have to do anything about it.

So if you dont donate your time or money. Dont participate in any elections. Dont take part in any form of protest of dissent. And still take advantage of the system your suppose to be opposing what do you do? No official is going to red this message board and say "WOOW that kid is pissed we better cut it out!" All your doing is bitching about something rather than taking action about it. By sitting there taking advantage of this life you lea without so much as lifting a finger to change our political climate you are alowing this kind of thing to happen. I think its outrageous that someone can say there interested in observing poilitics, but not actualy do anyhing and then whine about the outcome. Then hide behind the excuse that "it dosnt matter because there all corrupt" so they dont actualy have to do anything. Its like all these people running around with anti facist anto nazi patches that dont mean **** becase they would never confront a nazi or just whine about facism. Bansky said it best "Just because you dress like a revolutionary dosn't mean you dont have to act like one" Fact is if you want stuff to change your going to have to get off your ass and participate. Its especially outrageous when you call me apathetic when youopenly admit you dont participate in politics other than whine about stuff on a bi monthly basis.

As for the original topic
This is acctualy a very cliche topic. The U.N. has been flying around the world exploiting third world countries for fun and profit for over 20 years now. Its just sad that no one ever takes notice untill one of these posts about he newest atrocity appears periodicly on there message board or in there e-mail. I agree thie world we live in is full of and run by crap. And the UN is a failed supervising body. The top 5 in the UN dont care about whats going on around the world because they are cashing in on something while it happens. Be it war diamonds or cocaine. I think Im more frustrated with the fact that half the people reading this are completly ignorant to these kinds of things. Well SUPRISE! This stuff goes onaround the world everyday. Africa has become a giant mine for prying eyes to exploit at any chance they can. Latin america is plagued with kidnappings rapes and virtual femicide. Puerto Rico faces retaliation of bombs whenever they refuse to join our glorious union. The UNITED STATES is sending troops over seas to fight for freedom and democracy when families dont even make enough to feed themselves. And through it all everyone chooses to remain entirley a political. Read about it in a paper talk about it on the internet, accuse others of being nazis because there fed up up with all the talk and none of the action, eat dinner go to sleep repeat repeat repeat. Im no republican, never have been and never will be but Im no democrat either. And I think its funny that your sitting there accusing me of being in the wrong when you dont know what I stand for. I've seen what you stand for you stand for bitching and not taking action. I on th other hand will take my time to drive to a protest or take part ni town hall meetings hell even a school board meeting can change alot of the problems you see in your school.

[All_Nite_Dinah]

Ill continue what i was saying later.

[Sweet Jane]

Dinah's right, this is a cliche topic, but still a pressing one. There are scare stories everywhere, there are corrupt people within every organisation that is supposed to be here to make the world a better place. Soldiers in the army, police officers, lawyers, UN workers, politicians, who will lie, cheat, steal, rape, and exploit people and countries as much as they can while getting paid a nice sum to do so. These bodies needs a much closer watch on what they do, which is obviously hard when they are the regulatory body, but which organisation would we ever really be able to trust to oversee everything was being dealt with correctly? No-one, and you can't allow them all to monitor each other and leave it at that, because they could all join up and break the rules together? That only leaves the general public as the regulatory body, overseeing the goings on of all these organisations. Therefore we really should be doing something about it. I'm no better, I play a very small role in politics and am still studying at uni to try and get a better understanding of all the relevant issues, before hopefully going on to make some sort of difference or contribution, but things are going to stay corrupt as long as everyone remains as apathetic as they are. I don't think anyone who posted on this thread could be described as such, taking an interest is the first step, I know far too many people who don't even care about politics, like it doesn't affect them, then they complain about their tv licensing, university fees, terrorism scares or their poor wages and working conditions. Drives me nuts. Anyway its hard to get out there and single handedly change anything, like Hookers said in his original post things take so long to actually see a result, I can see why people lose hope. But things are getting better all the time. For example, In the UK, we have had an equal pay act in place for over twenty years, yet women are still getting paid less than men in most jobs accross the board. But the gap is narrowing. Things do make a difference, it just takes a some time for implementation and longer again to realise the effect. The same can be done for the state of the UN if people actually take an interest, maybe nothing will change for 20 years but we'll be glad of it when it happens.
And as it happens, I disagree that Hookers is just bitching, he's putting the issue out there for discussion, not in a politics forum but in a music one, to some people who might not ever have otherwise known about the issue. If it gets people thinking for themselves, then well done.

[hookers with machineguns]

Originally Posted by Sweet Jane

And as it happens, I disagree that Hookers is just bitching, he's putting the issue out there for discussion, not in a politics forum but in a music one, to some people who might not ever have otherwise known about the issue. If it gets people thinking for themselves, then well done.

*ding ding ding

All Nite Dinah, the bottom line is that I had no political agenda in creating this thread. I didn't want people to read this and go out and burn down the UN and protest. This is a music board, and the only time I saw a "political" discussion here was when I first joined a few months ago. I figured we needed a change of pace in the lounge. Forgive me for being cliche and "apathetic." What do you do at town hall meetings and protests? You voice an opinion. What am I doing here? Stating an opinion. Obviously not the same outlet, but the incentive is the same. I just wanted to create a new thread for discussion, don't crucify me for not trying to be a hero.

[hookers with machineguns]

Originally Posted by All_Nite_Dinah

So if you dont donate your time or money. Dont participate in any elections. Dont take part in any form of protest of dissent. And still take advantage of the system your suppose to be opposing what do you do? Fact is if you want stuff to change your going to have to get off your ass and participate. Its especially outrageous when you call me apathetic when youopenly admit you dont participate in politics other than whine about stuff on a bi monthly basis.

I'm sorry, I would never participate in a protest. Protests are a joke to me, sorry if that offends you. I see these protests, and there's contradiction within the tacky signs alone. Obviously a large group of people will have different ideologies, I don't have the patience to subside that to stand around with a corny sign on the street corner.
How can you participate in campaigning for a candidate? That's f*cked up. Sorry. You have to look at politicians as another occupation. They want to keep their job, bottom line! These campaigns, especially on the higher level, are so tampered and pampered and well-rehearsed, it's nothing more than a play. I vote in elections, FYI. That's the bare minimum of taking part in the democratic process.
I don't throw money around. I can rant about my two jobs and rent and what have you, blah blah. I don't put money where I cannot see the exact result of that donation.

So how much difference are you making? People are still dying, getting raped, starving, and wrongly imprisoned. At least we are aware, and not ignorant to the facts.

[hookers with machineguns]

And All Nite Dinah, you have to admit I created a thread that has sparked some of your interest to say the least. When was the last time you wrote that much for a post?

[All_Nite_Dinah]

Im going to try to respond to those in order.

First there is nothing wrong with stating your popinion. My main gripe with this thread was that its seems terribly unthought out. Even the topic dosnt make much sense. A fascism is pretty different than human rights violations. Granted they go hand in hand as topics but as phrases there entirley different things. The difference between bitching hear and bringing up a topic or discussion ata town hall or other meeting is that there the opportunity for direct change presents itself.

I dont see how you think that a protest is a silly thing that has never caused any change. Protests have happened for thousands of years and changed soooooo much. If nothing more they diplay that people care about what is going on around them and the quanitites of people in mass united with one voicce is a very intimidating thing for any person to face. Cops will fidget and politicans will hop in there limos. People will hear what is being said. A message is spread. A protest is something that is material and undeniable. If thousands of people come together in unison to express on idea there going to be recognized. I find it funny that anyone could deny the effectivness of protests and strikes. African American civl rights didnt just happen. They were a product of the dissent, outrage, and protests of millions of people. The idea that someone denys the effectivness of protesting is the silly thing to me. The bill of rights wasnt even part of the original constitution but because of protest and outcry from the masses was added. If thats not change Im not sure what is.

Whats wrong with participationg in a campaighn? Do you honestly belive that there arnt people out there who are campaigning for change? Find a party that agrees with your ideas and ask if you can help them, how hard is that? Whats wrong with wearing a button or having a bumper sticker. Handing out flyers or putting up posters and putting out the facts so that maybe you can help someone your ideas are alligned with can be put into some sort of office. Once again I think its outrageous that people simply say that politicans are just corrupt no good and not worrth spending time thinking about. Like it or not these are the peole that are deciding the rest of YOUR life. So you might as well have some say in what goes on. It dosnt mean you have to give up your life for a party or canidate. This past election I simply put a "anything but Bush" sticker on my car and handed out both Green party and democratic pamphlets. Granted Bush still swindled his way into the white hous but fact is I know I changed at least 15 peoples minds on who they were going to vote for and thats better than doing nothing at all.

So thats the difference I make I go out and tell people what there choices are. Im truley offended that you think Im unaware of rape murder and other atrocities occur on a daily basis. Thats the point I've been trying to get across to you to start with. this stuff happens every day so what are YOU going to do about it? I've been wading through this murky topic for around 2 years now paying attention to civil rights abuses wrongful imprisonments, and laws benifiting rapists and murders and I've been contributing with everything I can. The reason my panties are in such a bunch is because you accuse me of being the apathetic one when you stated that you didnt bother participating in any politics because there a waste of time. I guess what it all boils down to is that I think people should start accepting there responsabilities as HUMAN BEINGS to help others make it through this life with as much as they can. Regardless of race, profession, party, or gender. I wish people would start living with humanity in mind.

This spread sparks my interest only because readin peoples responses outrage me. I mean seriously oojay what the hell are you thinking? "just be thankful that we(I) live in the good ol' USA." FOR **** SAKE! Just because you dont hear about it dosnt mean its not happening. That post baiscally pushed me over the edge. Stuff like that pisses me off to no end. Anyway theres like no good threads on this board so I might as well post here.

[All_Nite_Dinah]

Seriosly we need to get some decent threads going on in this joint again.

[Anarchy doll]

well....I must say, all this has give me alot to think about while I am laying awake in bed tonight shocked by the world and what we have let our leaders let it become....

[MooseyDoom777]

The U.N. doesn't make laws that people have to abide by, they make resolutions that they hope other countries will adopt in their constitutions. The U.N. can't really make anyone do anything. As for the rapes, it's a lot like when the Russians invaded Germany. They raped German women, but they were still seen as heroes for defeating the Nazis. Basically, the whole 'helping other countries' thing is a lie.