The Official Religious/Political Debate Thread (country, house, rock, American)

[riseagainstrocks]

Originally Posted by covle

to start off, america was not founded on religious beliefs, mainly political and freedom reasons. one of my favourite quotes from the revolution was "patriarchial monarchy and hereditarial succession has lain the world in blood and ashes" by thomas paine, if memory serves.
secondly while i see your point iamalejo, i do not agree. america donates money yes, and you should see what that money goes towards and have the right to withdraw your donations if it goes to an unjust means, such as another palace for the rulers or upgrading the tanks or something. but i do not believe that any nation has the right to interfere with anothers politics. "sticking your noses in it" so to speak. unless of course the obvious misuse of power conundrum card is in play. but would it not be easier to eliminate a percentage of the debt owed to your country by whoever your producing aid for rather than just build upon the interest and forcing them into further debt by giving them money?
do not fault yourself to think that the us was the gardian angel or saviour in the vietnam war riseagainstrocks. no good came out of that war. nothing good could. only death. and millions of innocent deaths taken by both sides. for example mylai.
and the hitler comment was just plain ludicrious to me. hitler came to power by freakish circumstances. the main being the sever depression following germany's crushing defeat in ww1 and the psychological loses from this only for starters. in desperate times only the hard suvive. this includes ideals and forums in my mind. the nazis started as less than than 1% of the voting population. it started in a local tavern where hitler began speaking to old drunkards. but im sure everyone knows that story.
the communism vs capitalism war was mentioned again. something as petty as differing political beliefs should never cost millions of lives.
the end of ww2 was an excellent thing of course. the means that brought about it itself is horrendous. but i guess the two a-bombs outweighed the chance of succumbing to the germans and japanese and the damage to western society.
and when reading artistintheambulances post...i strongly disagree my friend. no, everyone is never going to be equal, but isnt it something to stride for? even if race is overlooked eventually, there will always be something to disern an elitist group. you say someones got to take the lead? why does it have to be one nation? ever heard of the kentian theory? if not ill explain. there is no nationality just a global identity. the world is run by a body such as the u.n except this organisation consists of all nationalities and religions no matter the size or wealth. the body actually has power by an appointed force contributed to by all nations. therefore any nation decides to go against the will of the organisation actually has something to face, not just a board of old men. i know this is a utopian society and it will never happen but it is a good dream.
oh and i blame all you darn americans for the fat kid at the end of my street. obeisity began in america, existed solely in america and has been spread by mass corporations. the end. nothing else. there was no overweight people in any country except america. disagree? well you must be fat, or the fat guys got to you first. certainly not in australia, our beloved country, hey anti poptart chik?

America was not founded on religious beliefs but rather greatly influenced by them. Patrick Henry, Benjamin Franklin, George Washington and many others where devout Christians.

I never said the Vietnam War was a good thing. I was saying it could have been a lot worse had something not been done about it.

Your idea of the National Socialist Party is quite wrong. the Nazi party was not begun by Hitler, was disbanded by the government twice and captured almost a third of the German parlement in its first standing election. Hitler if anything was depressed because of his mother's death and his percieved cowardice of the German generals during WWI. The comment was not ludicris because situations like exist all over Africa and Asia.

Dreams never solved anything. Don't put so much faith in Utopia. Work to make things better now instead of complaining.

I seriously hope you were joking about the fat kid comment. While America does have the highest obesity rate in the world, we also have a much higher poulation that Australia and almost all the European counties.

[riseagainstrocks]

Originally Posted by hookers with machineguns

See, when you got a guy like GWB as your figurehead, his message globally should be taken with a grain of salt. His cowboy limericks like "evildoers" and "freedom this, freedom that" makes the average american look like a guntoting redneck. My favorite thing GWB has ever said is that terrorists hate america because of our freedom. Right, like any human being would hate freedom. Hmm you think GWB, maybe it's because we are forcefeeding them democracy, christianity, and Starbucks down their throats.

People hate freedom because it removes them from a position of power. If the Middle East had fee elections, do you think that they would elect Saddam Huissen? Osama Bin Laden? Some might vote for them yes. We have people voting for Lyndon LaRouge in this country. But the overwhelming majority would not vote for them. We take free speech and press and religion for granted...kinda sad.

[IamAlejo]

Originally Posted by riseagainstrocks

I seriously hope you were joking about the fat kid comment. While America does have the highest obesity rate in the world, we also have a much higher poulation that Australia and almost all the European counties.

Obesity rate has nothing to do with the total population.

[anti_poptart_chik]

[QUOTE=IamAlejo]But when asked a question, wouldn't you first think it was in your own circumstances, your own situation, and not what is exactly "correct" for the rest of the world. What is around you is what you know best.


I half agree wit ur comment but in todays society we are so multicultural that we have to accept and recognise other peoples cultures also with business being done on such a global level we cant be oblivious to other countries laws and practices.

[jibber]

Originally Posted by riseagainstrocks

I seriously hope you were joking about the fat kid comment. While America does have the highest obesity rate in the world, we also have a much higher poulation that Australia and almost all the European counties.

Yeah america does have a higher population than Australia and all the European countries, but that has nothing to do with the situation. America has the highest PERCENTAGE of obese people in the world, which put more simply, makes America the fattest nation on the earth.

[covle]

Originally Posted by IamAlejo

So should the guy who invented cars be blamed for millions of car crashes each year? Should the man who invented missiles be blamed for the death of Iraqis. Obeisity is an issue of self control. I've never seen an American have McDonald's forced down his throat. Sure, advertising, blah blah blah...yes, it is conveniant. But anyone who eats properly, has self control, excercises, etc, can become a healthy person. I'm an American. I'm 6'4, 150 pounds. So send the fat jokes my way. And I hope the "no fat people in other countries" was an exaggeration trying to make your point.

sarcasm my good man. i am saying something like obeseity cannot be blamed on one country or even dorporations. our lifestyle in the western world has become so easy that for entertainment kids dont have to do anything. they can sit and play videogames or any ****. we are becoming fat because ourlives are so easy. everything is done for us. i am not so stupid as to even attempt to blame anyone for such problems.

[covle]

[QUOTE=riseagainstrocks]
I never said the Vietnam War was a good thing. I was saying it could have been a lot worse had something not been done about it.

what did america do about it? they didnt end it. america lsot the war and left. im not having a go at america but they did nothing for it.

Your idea of the National Socialist Party is quite wrong. the Nazi party was not begun by Hitler, was disbanded by the government twice and captured almost a third of the German parlement in its first standing election. Hitler if anything was depressed because of his mother's death and his percieved cowardice of the German generals during WWI. The comment was not ludicris because situations like exist all over Africa and Asia.

you misunderstand. i meant hitlers involvement in the nazi party. ill put that down to late nights, many coffees on my part.

Dreams never solved anything. Don't put so much faith in Utopia. Work to make things better now instead of complaining.

i was not complaining. i was putting forth what i believe we should work for. as i said, it would never happen, but it is something worth working towards, which is exactly what you just said. so i guess we agree on this.

[covle]

[QUOTE=IamAlejo]I see what you mean...but with the money we pour into these economies, are you to say that the politics in that country do not effect the economy? I have a hard time believing that. A lot of money we use helps supporting other countries militaries. When we need help in a military event, we often ask for help from these countries. Etc, etc. While I don't think it is a "We did this for you, you are in eternal debt" deal, I do believe that a country with as large of a national debt as we have, the amount of aid we give out, we want/get something in return. The "giving aid to further them in debt" part I do not understand though. Most of the money we give out...is just that, "given out". While we ask for favors in return, we don't ask for the money in return with compounded interest.


much of what is labelled "aid" is actually a loan. these loans are given out by numerous countries, not only america, that have a more negative effect on the country. on face value, sure it looks like an extremely humane gesture and the countries media will eat that up. but the interest on such loans is so high that if used as intended, the country would attempt to build humanitarian services for their citizens, they would have no chance of repaying the debt. and as time rolls on, as inevitably it does-or so im told, the interest gets larger and larger and the countries best chance to look after its people is initially to eliminate the debt so they can start from square one, build up their economy and such and then look to improve the citizens way of life. so while most countries look only at the immediate future with the money, it has an intense deprative effect moreso than positive. i am not talking about aid given in times of dier need such as in the tsunami effected areas, so nobody bother bringing that up. many 3rd world countries are in this situation, and many from loans after ww1 and 2.

also, my apologies for multiple successive posts. i kept finding other points to write about.

[IamAlejo]

Originally Posted by covle

much of what is labelled "aid" is actually a loan. these loans are given out by numerous countries, not only america, that have a more negative effect on the country. on face value, sure it looks like an extremely humane gesture and the countries media will eat that up. but the interest on such loans is so high that if used as intended, the country would attempt to build humanitarian services for their citizens, they would have no chance of repaying the debt.

I'd love to see the numbers on our total money given out in these "loans" and the total paid back in these "loans". I find it hard to believe we get paid back half of what we give out, and with all that interest we should be making much much more.

[riseagainstrocks]

Originally Posted by IamAlejo

Obesity rate has nothing to do with the total population.

I know, I'm saying even though our rate is high, our total population is overall slim. however by a slim margin.