The Official Religious/Political Debate Thread (techno, country, single, American)

[franscar]

Anyone know who's going to win? I want to know if it's worth checking for cheap flights to do some cheap Christmas shopping, because if Bush gets another term it's going to be great for our exchange rates.

[SwitchFootRocks!]

i am so afraid to be in here i do not do good with debating about the government. what i hear in my head.


BUSH SUCKS>BUSH SUCKS>BUSH SUCKS>BUSH SUCKS

[David Frost]

Originally Posted by IamAlejo

Okay, good insight.

okay, if the bus story isnt strong enough for you...


http://www.bend.com/news/ar_view^3Far_id^3D18712.htm#no-hash

try this one.

there are thousands of stories like that one. and please, you think im ****ty about my music? im so much more of a stickler about politics. Bush is the worst. period.

[SwitchFootRocks!]

Originally Posted by SwitchFootRocks!

i am so afraid to be in here i do not do good with debating about the government. what i hear in my head.


BUSH SUCKS>BUSH SUCKS>BUSH SUCKS>BUSH SUCKS

[IamAlejo]

Wow Frost, Again, I follow your link thinking it might have some political insight. Again, nothing. Wow, someone got kicked out for wearing shirts that the speakers assisstants seemed to think would cause a stir. You think Bush pointed out there "Take them out"? Hell no, his advisors did. You think only Republicans do this? Hell no. If you care to actually discuss issues I'll be open to talking. But if you want to continue links to sites that have no real issue in them, I'm not that interested. But I'm sure everyone else is, so go for it.

[SwitchFootRocks!]

yeah go IamAlejo

[David Frost]

George Bush is a bad president, his foreign and domestic policies have been awful and far from what he planned in 2000 when he was elected(that is if you even think that he was elected). Him and his administration, in one swoop, took 9/11 and used it as propaganda to fuel an unjust war. Kerry is not the best, but to call him a flip flopper, would be hypocritical.

George Bush on the GIGANTIC surplus

BUSH PLEDGES NOT TO TOUCH SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS... "We're going to keep the promise of Social Security and keep the government from raiding the Social Security surplus."

then..

The New York Times reported that "the president's new budget uses Social Security surpluses to pay for other programs every year through 2013, ultimately diverting more than $1.4 trillion in Social Security funds to other purposes." [

number 2. GOVERNOR BUSH VETOES PATIENTS' RIGHT TO SUE... "Despite his campaign rhetoric in favor of a patients' bill of rights, Bush fought such a bill tooth and nail as Texas governor, vetoing a bill coauthored by Republican state Rep. John Smithee in 1995. He... constantly opposed a patient's right to sue an HMO over coverage denied that resulted in adverse health effects.

then...

"We're one of the first states that said you can sue an HMO for denying you proper coverage... It's time for our nation to come together and do what's right for the people. And I think this is right for the people. You know, I support a national patients' bill of rights, Mr. Vice President. And I want all people covered. I don't want the law to supersede good law like we've got in Texas."

three..

BUSH WILL NOT OFFER NUCLEAR NORTH KOREA INCENTIVES TO DISARM... "We developed a bold approach under which, if the North addressed our long-standing concerns, the United States was prepared to take important steps that would have significantly improved the lives of the North Korean people. Now that North Korea's covert nuclear weapons program has come to light, we are unable to pursue this approach

then, "Well, we will work to take steps to ease their political and economic isolation. So there would be -- what you would see would be some provisional or temporary proposals that would only lead to lasting benefit after North Korea dismantles its nuclear programs. So there would be some provisional or temporary efforts of that nature."

four..BUSH SUPPORTS A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE... "Bush said he...favors leaving up to a woman and her doctor the abortion question."

then, BUSH OPPOSES A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE "I am pro-life."

five.. BUSH INVITES CHALABI TO STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS...President Bush also met with Chalabi during his brief trip to Iraq last Thanksgiving
then,
"U.S. soldiers raided the home of America's one-time ally Ahmad Chalabi on Thursday and seized documents and computers
6.
BUSH OPPOSES THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY..."So, creating a Cabinet office doesn't solve the problem. You still will have agencies within the federal government that have to be coordinated. So the answer is that creating a Cabinet post doesn't solve anything."
then,
"So tonight, I ask the Congress to join me in creating a single, permanent department with an overriding and urgent mission: securing the homeland of America and protecting the American people

7.
BUSH WANTS OSAMA DEAD OR ALIVE... "I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'
then,
"I don't know where he is.You know, I just don't spend that much time on him... I truly am not that concerned about him."
8.
BUSH SAYS *** MARRIAGE IS A STATE ISSUE... "The state can do what they want to do. Don't try to trap me in this state's issue like you're trying to get me into."
then,
"Today I call upon the Congress to promptly pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of man and woman as husband and wife."
9.
Bush opposes restrictions on 527s: "I also have reservations about the constitutionality of the broad ban on issue advertising [in McCain Feingold], which restrains the speech of a wide variety of groups on issues of public import
then,
"I don't think we ought to have 527s. I can't be more plain about it…I think they're bad for the system. That's why I signed the bill, McCain-Feingold.

and the two that i find the most appauling-

Saddam/al Qaeda Link

BUSH SAYS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AL QAEDA AND SADDAM... "You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror." [President Bush, 9/25/02]

...BUSH SAYS SADDAM HAD NO ROLE IN AL QAEDA PLOT "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11." [President Bush, 9/17/03]

then..

Weapons of Mass Destruction

BUSH SAYS WE FOUND THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION..."We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories...for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them." [President Bush, Interview in Poland, 5/29/03]

...BUSH SAYS WE HAVEN'T FOUND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION "David Kay has found the capacity to produce weapons.And when David Kay goes in and says we haven't found stockpiles yet, and there's theories as to where the weapons went. They could have been destroyed during the war. Saddam and his henchmen could have destroyed them as we entered into Iraq. They could be hidden. They could have been transported to another country, and we'll find out." [President Bush, Meet the Press, 2/7/04]


sounds like a commander in cheif that knows what he is talking about. that is, when he can even form a sentence.

[IamAlejo]

I can't believe a Kerry supporter is calling someone a flip-flopper. I'm in shock right now. From what I've read, I'll point out a few errors. On points about WMD...he says that we found banned weapons. We did find banned weapons. Long Range Missiles we found were banned under UN Sanctions on Iraq. So truly, we found banned weapons. To say that there is no link between Al-Qaeda and Hussein is foolish, and Bush knows there is a link. He said that Hussein may not be directly responsible for the 9-11 attacks, but just because he is not involved in every plot does not mean they are unlinkable.

I'm not going to comment on the top issues, because I see a lot of quotes, and no sources. Which makes me think how out of context things are taken and if they are actual quotes.

[franscar]

Originally Posted by IamAlejo

On points about WMD...he says that we found banned weapons. We did find banned weapons. Long Range Missiles we found were banned under UN Sanctions on Iraq. So truly, we found banned weapons.

Yes, but Bush said there WERE WMD in Iraq, he even named thirteen sites where he had EVIDENCE of the production of WMD's. He's spent the last year furiously back tracking. He said, before the war, that there were WMD's in that country, and he has not found them. He lied in order to start a false war.

Originally Posted by IamAlejo

To say that there is no link between Al-Qaeda and Hussein is foolish, and Bush knows there is a link. He said that Hussein may not be directly responsible for the 9-11 attacks, but just because he is not involved in every plot does not mean they are unlinkable.

Hussein gave no aid whatsoever to Al-Qaeda. Sure there were training camps within Iraq, but there are Al-Qaeda training camps in Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Bali, Saudi Arabia, the UK and the USA as well. Bush said that there was a link between Hussain and 9/11, and he's never given any evidence to the international community to back that up.

[David Frost]

Originally Posted by IamAlejo

I can't believe a Kerry supporter is calling someone a flip-flopper.

there are over 50 examples that have been reported and quoted in which george w bush has "flip flopped". i hear everyone call kerry this term but never with anything other than the bull**** 87 billion vote to back this up.