The Official Religious/Political Debate Thread (country, house, fan, American)

[IamAlejo]

I believe you were the one blaming us for being unfair to the Cuban people for the trade blocks we put on them because of Communism in an earlier thread.

[jibber]

not sure, I could have been, but communism and the mass murder of millions of Kurds aren't quite the same thing, but i see where you're coming from. it has to be a pretty desperate situation (like the one in iraq) to justify a trade blockade. if the US had done that I would have nothing to say against it. however, in my opinion, war is the most difficult action to justify, there are just so many devastating effects that you really have to weigh your options before dediding, and make sure that war is THE ONLY option. And I think the US government simply skipped that step.

[Eltiraaz]

War definatley was not the only option in that scenario.

[Yellow Card]

Ok, i dont have much to say unless im asked, but after reading all six pages of this Thread, i would have to say 'iamAlejo' has thoroughly slaughtered 'sharky' and all those who appose him.
I think invading Iraq was one of the best moves the U.S of A has ever done, if anything, America sould've done it long ago.
No matter what argument u come up with, the fact is, is that Saddam Hussien and his sons had to be stopped at ANY COST.



And by the way 'Sharky' i think u should get a new pic.



Cheers,

[franscar]

Speaking as an outsider from American politics, I'd just like to ask those who supported Bush's actions in Iraq if they think that American soldiers should be sent into the numerous other areas in the world where there are huge human rights issues. Zimbabwe and North Korea for two. North Korea is a proven owner of weapons of mass destruction, the so-called smoking gun, and have been openly hostile to the outside world for close to 50 years, all the while the population of their country is brainwashed and indoctrinated into a culture of hatred against the Americans that Al-Qaeda could only dream of, yet Bush chose to invade Iraq. I have my own personal opinions on why he chose Iraq (black liquid and lots of it) but what do his supporters think of the reasons Bush proposed for the invasion?

No weapons of mass destruction have been found, and as I said earlier, human rights violations are going on all over the world.

[Yellow Card]

Originally Posted by franscar

Speaking as an outsider from American politics, I'd just like to ask those who supported Bush's actions in Iraq if they think that American soldiers should be sent into the numerous other areas in the world where there are huge human rights issues. Zimbabwe and North Korea for two. North Korea is a proven owner of weapons of mass destruction, the so-called smoking gun, and have been openly hostile to the outside world for close to 50 years, all the while the population of their country is brainwashed and indoctrinated into a culture of hatred against the Americans that Al-Qaeda could only dream of, yet Bush chose to invade Iraq. I have my own personal opinions on why he chose Iraq (black liquid and lots of it) but what do his supporters think of the reasons Bush proposed for the invasion?

No weapons of mass destruction have been found, and as I said earlier, human rights violations are going on all over the world.

OK, Picture yourself as the President of the United States of America, living in a "Post September 11 World."
This means you can no longer wait too take the first punch, because the people delivering the first punch will kill innocent civillians, not in their "1's" or "10's" but in the "1000's" or "1000,000's".
The enemy has said that anyone who does not suuport their extremist views must convert or die.
Ur intelligent services tell you that Saddam posses weapons of mass destruction, the UN agrees but does not know how many he has left. 12 years of UN sanctions have not stopped him. The Director of the CIA tells you 'quote' "Slam Dunk" that Saddam has Weapons of Mass Destruction.
You know that Saddam Hussien has used them against his own people, and would not hesitate too sell them too terrorists.
You are the president and you must decide what to do.....





Too this day America has not directly profited from Iraqi oil, no one has been able to prove otherwise.

Zimbabwe and North Korea are horrible regimes, the UN must act first, but it has not, unlike the case in Iraq. (you cannot compare Iraq and North Korea/ Zimbabwe, this is like comparing apples and oranges)

If America invaded North Korea, they would be unable to pevent North Korea from destroying South Korea.
The president of Zimbabwe is evil, but no where near as bad as Saddam.



Thats all for now.

[ffmariners]

by the way, a report just released that out of the 100 billion bush was granted to use in Iraq, only 10 of it has been taken. Just cause the money is granted does not mean it is used. That is where the war cost counter is flawed.

And black gold? Really, too bad im still paying $2/gal. If you think we are getting the oil, I say you are crazy.

And for people who are so concerned about the well being and freedoms of themselves and fellow Americans, I am surprised that you would have rather kept the Iraqi people subjugated.

Because last I checked, when the ruling class is the minority, and rules by force, this is a direct conflict with personal liberty. (Hmm sounds like what apartheid was, can we all at least agree that apartheid was wrong?) So while you smoke your weed and turn up "Pump Up the Valuum" think about how Iraqi women would be beat, raped, and killed by Sadaam's sons. Think about how his olympics athletes would be beat and tortured for bad performance. Don't stop thinking if it hurts. Keep thinking about how Sadaam would round up families and make kids watch their parents get slaughtered. Think about the masses of people gassed, in the thousands.

Yea, what a waste. Cause damn they are not people, they do not need to be saved, they do not need freedom. Why help them? We need to work on our own country so that each family can have an average of 3.8 televisions and 3 cars instead of 3.2 televisions and 2.6 cars. Let's work on those first, then concentrate on the humanity.

[IamAlejo]

All very true. Except I'm only paying $1.87 for a gallon.

[jibber]

why do always get the urge to post in political threads.....i'm gonna keep this short
In all of your arguments, there are regimes who are better examples of all the reasons for why the US went to war with iraq.

Anti-american sentiment among the general public with no attempt by the government to supress it: Saudi Arabia is a much bigger threat to the US in that respect

WMD: North Korea (and yes I read your explanation, and I'm not seeing where you're coming from. If the US invaded North Korea I'm pretty sure that the military in North Korea would momentarily turn their attention away from south Korea to the US military who would be carpet-bombing their country.)

Humam rights violations: There have been so many instances in the past where the US sat and did nothing. Take Rwanda for instance. The government was commiting genocide while the US did nothing, so why iraq, why now?

I realize that you're probably never going to agree with me, just as I'm never going to agree with you. I'm merely responding to this thread to keep the debate going, because I think it's great that we're actually debating the subject. It when people never questions their own beliefs that they get into a pattern of blind faith and obedience, which is (in my opinion) the worst form of ignorance on any matter of importance.

[Yellow Card]

Originally Posted by jibber

In all of your arguments, there are regimes who are better examples of all the reasons for why the US went to war with iraq.

Anti-american sentiment among the general public with no attempt by the government to supress it: Saudi Arabia is a much bigger threat to the US in that respect

WMD: North Korea (and yes I read your explanation, and I'm not seeing where you're coming from. If the US invaded North Korea I'm pretty sure that the military in North Korea would momentarily turn their attention away from south Korea to the US military who would be carpet-bombing their country.)

Dude, u some good points there, but just too let u know, there is absolutly no way America would 'carpet bomb' anybody, considering they now use 'precision' targeting, they could 'carpet bomb' but the last time they did that was in Vietnam.

Originally Posted by jibber

Humam rights violations: There have been so many instances in the past where the US sat and did nothing. Take Rwanda for instance. The government was commiting genocide while the US did nothing, so why iraq, why now?

Good point man, but perhaps they've started a trend now and will continue to help other countries from now on, they had to start sometime.

Originally Posted by jibber

I realize that you're probably never going to agree with me, just as I'm never going to agree with you. I'm merely responding to this thread to keep the debate going, because I think it's great that we're actually debating the subject. It when people never questions their own beliefs that they get into a pattern of blind faith and obedience, which is (in my opinion) the worst form of ignorance on any matter of importance.

I agree, atta girl jibber!!! (sorry i cant remember if u were a boy or a girl, but i think i can recall a previous thread where u stated u were a chick )

Anyways catch ya later mate



P.S I posted some facts on the Bush confilict on another thread called "Bush Debate" ....i think thats it, anyways i couldnt be bothered to put it on this thread, so please take the time to visit that thread