sxe - straight ****ing what now?? (punk, effect, quote, Ching)

mannequin Republic · 12-30-2005, 06:40 PM

Fal, I understand where you are coming from looking back at my statements, I'm not fully articulating what I am trying to say. Let me try to better explain by giving you my situation. I'm someone who beleives strongly in political activism, and that was how I got into the "punk" scene. If i really wanted to be accepted I would have got a bunch of peircing and dyed my hair, but that just isn't me. I'm a big guy with a full beard and long hair, yet I wear mostly collared shirts and khakis, because that is the style I like. I'm a vegetarian, but I think PETA is one of the most moronic organizations ever. I'm a hardcore liberal, but I think that people on the far left are wrong on a lot of issues. I take pride in thinking for myself, and not feeling the need to accept all aspects of one culture (the punk or emo culture) because I like other aspects of it. Doing so, in my opinion, is lazy. Instead of thinking for yourself on individual issues people blindly follow what is popular among their peirs. I don't know how I can explain it much better than that, but if you still don't get where i'm coming from I can try and rephrase it.

Barnard17 · 12-30-2005, 06:47 PM

And that suits you. My problem is that you make the assumptions that SxEs immerse themselves in that culture because they're too lazy to assert themselves - applying your particular situation to how they should live to an extent. Just because they do something someone else has done, doesn't mean they haven't thought about it and decided it to be the best things by themselves. To label them a "conformist" in an insulting fashion is as much shooting yourself as it is them, because on a basic level we have all conformed and will continue to do so. It is who we choose to conform with, and how we choose to do it, that decides who we are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenixpunk

So my thinking is, not giving people a hard time isnt for acceptance, its a matter of respect. If someone disrespects me for something i do, bet your ass theyll get it right back.

But if people are showing you respect, it's a sign that they are able to accept you as you are. Conformity, respect, obedience and the like are all closely intermingled. You do something to show that you respect someone and it gets you respect back. If you have an opinion, and you are around someone that you respect, you will not voice it in a way that you expect to be taken disrespectfully. You may be of an opinion completely adversed to theirs but you conform, if only a little, to show that while you disagree you respect them enough to not get in their face about it. If you got in their face about it, you wouldn't be accepted and you wouldn't be respected. Humans are highly sociable creatures - most often you will see that when people aren't within a group they get on well with they become depressed and lethargic. This will always be present, and we will always subconsciously twist our perceived or voiced views and wants based on the given situation so that we may better fit in - not for 100% acceptance necessarily, but so that we won't get our heads bashed on (unless you're drunk or high). This is conformity.

Imonlydancing · 12-30-2005, 06:51 PM

I Love Fal

mannequin Republic · 12-30-2005, 07:03 PM

"And that suits you. My problem is that you make the assumptions that SxEs immerse themselves in that culture because they're too lazy to assert themselves - applying your particular situation to how they should live to an extent. Just because they do something someone else has done, doesn't mean they haven't thought about it and decided it to be the best things by themselves. To label them a "conformist" in an insulting fashion is as much shooting yourself as it is them, because on a basic level we have all conformed and will continue to do so. It is who we choose to conform with, and how we choose to do it, that decides who we are."

First I never called anyone a conformist, that isn't a word that I use with an frequency.

Next you fail to answer anything I'm argueing. Every single person is different, so when you go out of your way to do what the group says is right, or what everyone in the group does you are being intellectually lazy. When you "conform" for the sake of conforming, you are doing yourself an injustice. My problem is not just with sXe kids (although I do take personal issue with their beliefs) but with every group in which the members feel they must be a certain way to be accepted.

Barnard17 · 12-30-2005, 07:09 PM

Why do you do yourself an injustice if you "conform for the sake of conforming"? Conformity builds social bonds. If people would rather spend time pruning their social position rather than expanding their intellectual horizons, who are we to tell them not to? You would feel to be degrading yourself if you did so, why should everyone take offense to the act in the same way as you do?

Fenixpunk · 12-30-2005, 07:10 PM

well, in defense of sXe..their belief of not doing any drug, etc. are the basis for their scene, unlike punk where the beliefs are spread out more. Does that mean that the sXes arent conformist, well, not all of them. Ive met hip hoppers that are sXe, obviously not conforming with a certain genre. The sXe hardcore kids, well, just like any scene, there are those that go out of their way to feel accepted, and those who realize that what they have in common is what is important, and that they can still be an individual when it comes to any other aspect of life.

Fenixpunk · 12-30-2005, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fal

Why do you do yourself an injustice if you "conform for the sake of conforming"? Conformity builds social bonds. If people would rather spend time pruning their social position rather than expanding their intellectual horizons, who are we to tell them not to? You would feel to be degrading yourself if you did so, why should everyone take offense to the act in the same way as you do?

well fal, conforming for the sake of conforming is depriving yourself of being who you may really be. Conformity doesnt build social bonds if nobody is true to themselves but instead just trying to be like everyone else. Its being around people who truly in their heart believe what they represent that builds a social bond. The people who are fake are usually pretty easy to point out. I personally dont take offense in the "poseurs" they will understand someday and either find another social group who are more like the true them, or realize what it is they really stand for and in turn be themselves not to fit in, but because its who they really are.

Barnard17 · 12-30-2005, 07:24 PM

Usually if people become termed a poser it is because they have social problems which are related to, but not caused by, their love of conformity. Usually you'll find they're people who build ambivalent bonds, and therefore seek love but are afraid of the slightest lack of attention, and react badly to small levels of rejection. They will hyper conform in an attempt to better fit in which will usually backfire. As I say - the problem here is not from their love of conforming, as that is caused by a problem which is self perpetuating.

mannequin Republic · 12-30-2005, 07:28 PM

Fal, i've been on both sides of the fence, and the friendships I've made on this side are so much more satisfying.

Barnard17 · 12-30-2005, 07:34 PM

Which, of course, confirms that all people who are seen to conform to a greater extent are worse people who waste their lives. Thankyou for your enlightenment.

12-30-2005, 07:09 PM	#95 (permalink)
Barnard17 My home? Discabled, Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 204	Why do you do yourself an injustice if you "conform for the sake of conforming"? Conformity builds social bonds. If people would rather spend time pruning their social position rather than expanding their intellectual horizons, who are we to tell them not to? You would feel to be degrading yourself if you did so, why should everyone take offense to the act in the same way as you do? __________________ Vita brevis, Occasio praeceps

12-30-2005, 07:10 PM	#96 (permalink)
Fenixpunk The Erroneous Hoodlum Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: West Side Phoenix Posts: 2,057	well, in defense of sXe..their belief of not doing any drug, etc. are the basis for their scene, unlike punk where the beliefs are spread out more. Does that mean that the sXes arent conformist, well, not all of them. Ive met hip hoppers that are sXe, obviously not conforming with a certain genre. The sXe hardcore kids, well, just like any scene, there are those that go out of their way to feel accepted, and those who realize that what they have in common is what is important, and that they can still be an individual when it comes to any other aspect of life. __________________ This message has been approved by Shawn Erroneous - The Declaimed

12-30-2005, 07:24 PM	#98 (permalink)
Barnard17 My home? Discabled, Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 204	Usually if people become termed a poser it is because they have social problems which are related to, but not caused by, their love of conformity. Usually you'll find they're people who build ambivalent bonds, and therefore seek love but are afraid of the slightest lack of attention, and react badly to small levels of rejection. They will hyper conform in an attempt to better fit in which will usually backfire. As I say - the problem here is not from their love of conforming, as that is caused by a problem which is self perpetuating. __________________ Vita brevis, Occasio praeceps

12-30-2005, 07:34 PM	#100 (permalink)
Barnard17 My home? Discabled, Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 204	Which, of course, confirms that all people who are seen to conform to a greater extent are worse people who waste their lives. Thankyou for your enlightenment. __________________ Vita brevis, Occasio praeceps

12-30-2005, 06:40 PM	#91 (permalink)
mannequin Republic The Ghost of Tom Joad Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 81	Fal, I understand where you are coming from looking back at my statements, I'm not fully articulating what I am trying to say. Let me try to better explain by giving you my situation. I'm someone who beleives strongly in political activism, and that was how I got into the "punk" scene. If i really wanted to be accepted I would have got a bunch of peircing and dyed my hair, but that just isn't me. I'm a big guy with a full beard and long hair, yet I wear mostly collared shirts and khakis, because that is the style I like. I'm a vegetarian, but I think PETA is one of the most moronic organizations ever. I'm a hardcore liberal, but I think that people on the far left are wrong on a lot of issues. I take pride in thinking for myself, and not feeling the need to accept all aspects of one culture (the punk or emo culture) because I like other aspects of it. Doing so, in my opinion, is lazy. Instead of thinking for yourself on individual issues people blindly follow what is popular among their peirs. I don't know how I can explain it much better than that, but if you still don't get where i'm coming from I can try and rephrase it.

12-30-2005, 06:51 PM	#93 (permalink)
Imonlydancing raaaaaaa Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Bedford Posts: 951	I Love Fal

12-30-2005, 07:03 PM	#94 (permalink)
mannequin Republic The Ghost of Tom Joad Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 81	"And that suits you. My problem is that you make the assumptions that SxEs immerse themselves in that culture because they're too lazy to assert themselves - applying your particular situation to how they should live to an extent. Just because they do something someone else has done, doesn't mean they haven't thought about it and decided it to be the best things by themselves. To label them a "conformist" in an insulting fashion is as much shooting yourself as it is them, because on a basic level we have all conformed and will continue to do so. It is who we choose to conform with, and how we choose to do it, that decides who we are." First I never called anyone a conformist, that isn't a word that I use with an frequency. Next you fail to answer anything I'm argueing. Every single person is different, so when you go out of your way to do what the group says is right, or what everyone in the group does you are being intellectually lazy. When you "conform" for the sake of conforming, you are doing yourself an injustice. My problem is not just with sXe kids (although I do take personal issue with their beliefs) but with every group in which the members feel they must be a certain way to be accepted.

12-30-2005, 07:28 PM	#99 (permalink)
mannequin Republic The Ghost of Tom Joad Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 81	Fal, i've been on both sides of the fence, and the friendships I've made on this side are so much more satisfying.