Is jazz considered classical music?

Juga · 07-30-2015, 04:08 PM

Jazz is by some considered classical, and by others popular music, so I what are your thoughts on this subject?

**Exo** · 07-30-2015, 04:25 PM

No.

**Janszoon** · 07-30-2015, 05:19 PM

Jazz is considered bluegrass.

**Frownland** · 07-30-2015, 05:30 PM

Generally, no those are two different genres, but they have crossed paths.

chesya · 09-01-2015, 12:29 PM

For me the Art Ensemble of Chicago fall into the classical slot even if I buy their work from 'Jazz'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PMcRuh8O74

Dave Brubeck was fresh out of classical training when he produced his best work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFbOE5GuiBE

Some of the great practitioners of Jazz like Gillespie, Bird and Monk were very aware of classical composers like Schoenberg and Bartok.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeM0JMgj358

On the other side there are pieces like Milhaud's Le Boeuf sur la Toit and Pierrot Lunaire by Schoenberg that presage developments in Jazz, but most like Shostakovich and Stravinsky failed entire to grasp it.

Despite some of the really great musicians of all time being Jazz people overall there are rigid constraints in mainstream Jazz that do not exist in the Classical tradition. My father was a semi-pro jazz pianist and I'm trying to remember what they were. Something about not moving from the rhythmic and harmonic base of the original theme?

Chula Vista · 09-01-2015, 01:08 PM

A long time ago, in a galaxy far away.....

Classical was Classical.
Jazz was Jazz.
Gospel was Gospel.
Bluegrass was Bluegrass.
Country was Country.
Blues was Blues.
Ragtime was Ragtime.
Pop was Pop.

Then someone threw a party and all the genres showed up, got ridiculously hammered, and started an epic all night orgy out behind the barn.

It's been a complete cluster **** ever since.

**Frownland** · 09-01-2015, 01:31 PM

Charles Mingus is another example of an artist doing jazz/classical crossover with his album Let My Children Hear Music.

Gibrockson · 11-04-2015, 06:15 AM

Hi,

I would say both.
Early jazz pianists learned piano with classical methods, and therefore were inspired with european classical music (like vienna waltz i think). But at this time the jazz was popular music to dance.
I think in the 40's, it became more elitist with bebop and so people couldn't dance on it anymore as it was very fast.

Terrapin_Station · 11-04-2015, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juga

Jazz is by some considered classical, and by others popular music, so I what are your thoughts on this subject?

No. Why would you consider it a different genre than jazz? Jazz is jazz.

Terrapin_Station · 11-04-2015, 06:30 AM

Re the "crossover" etc. comments, third stream, fusion, ECM style, etc. are considered subgenres of jazz (despite Gunther Schuller's and others objections re third stream--conventionally it's treated as a jazz subgenre).

Re Art Ensemble of Chicago, a lot of their stuff, especially their earlier stuff, was free improv under a jazz rubric. Arguably some free improv wouldn't fall under jazz, but that's arguable.

And on the other side, Copland's Music for the Theatre (which has a heavy jazz influence), Four Piano Blues, etc., Stravinsky's Ragtime, etc. are considered classical.

07-30-2015, 04:08 PM	#1 (permalink)
Juga Groupie Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 1	Is jazz considered classical music? Jazz is by some considered classical, and by others popular music, so I what are your thoughts on this subject?

07-30-2015, 04:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
Exo All day jazz and biscuits Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 7,354	No. __________________ LastFM SUPREME POO BAH MODERATOR EXTRAORDINAIRE

07-30-2015, 05:19 PM	#3 (permalink)
Janszoon Mate, Spawn & Die Join Date: May 2007 Location: The Rapping Community Posts: 24,593	Jazz is considered bluegrass. __________________ A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man Time & Place 25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die last.fm

07-30-2015, 05:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Generally, no those are two different genres, but they have crossed paths. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

09-01-2015, 12:29 PM	#5 (permalink)
chesya Groupie Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 21	A continuum For me the Art Ensemble of Chicago fall into the classical slot even if I buy their work from 'Jazz' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PMcRuh8O74 Dave Brubeck was fresh out of classical training when he produced his best work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFbOE5GuiBE Some of the great practitioners of Jazz like Gillespie, Bird and Monk were very aware of classical composers like Schoenberg and Bartok. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeM0JMgj358 On the other side there are pieces like Milhaud's Le Boeuf sur la Toit and Pierrot Lunaire by Schoenberg that presage developments in Jazz, but most like Shostakovich and Stravinsky failed entire to grasp it. Despite some of the really great musicians of all time being Jazz people overall there are rigid constraints in mainstream Jazz that do not exist in the Classical tradition. My father was a semi-pro jazz pianist and I'm trying to remember what they were. Something about not moving from the rhythmic and harmonic base of the original theme? Last edited by chesya; 09-01-2015 at 12:35 PM.

09-01-2015, 01:08 PM	#6 (permalink)
Chula Vista Toasted Poster Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SoCal by way of Boston Posts: 11,332	A long time ago, in a galaxy far away..... Classical was Classical. Jazz was Jazz. Gospel was Gospel. Bluegrass was Bluegrass. Country was Country. Blues was Blues. Ragtime was Ragtime. Pop was Pop. Then someone threw a party and all the genres showed up, got ridiculously hammered, and started an epic all night orgy out behind the barn. It's been a complete cluster **** ever since. __________________ “The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

09-01-2015, 01:31 PM	#7 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Charles Mingus is another example of an artist doing jazz/classical crossover with his album Let My Children Hear Music. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

11-04-2015, 06:15 AM	#8 (permalink)
Gibrockson Groupie Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: https://t.me/pump_upp Posts: 4	Hi, I would say both. Early jazz pianists learned piano with classical methods, and therefore were inspired with european classical music (like vienna waltz i think). But at this time the jazz was popular music to dance. I think in the 40's, it became more elitist with bebop and so people couldn't dance on it anymore as it was very fast.

11-04-2015, 06:30 AM	#10 (permalink)
Terrapin_Station Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: NYC Man Posts: 877	Re the "crossover" etc. comments, third stream, fusion, ECM style, etc. are considered subgenres of jazz (despite Gunther Schuller's and others objections re third stream--conventionally it's treated as a jazz subgenre). Re Art Ensemble of Chicago, a lot of their stuff, especially their earlier stuff, was free improv under a jazz rubric. Arguably some free improv wouldn't fall under jazz, but that's arguable. And on the other side, Copland's Music for the Theatre (which has a heavy jazz influence), Four Piano Blues, etc., Stravinsky's Ragtime, etc. are considered classical.