Mt. Rushmore of Jazz?

Violent & Funky · 12-21-2010, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan

Coltrane, Russell, Armstrong, Coleman. Debating whether or not Zorn deserves a place in there, but I figure this is more of a foundations of jazz kind of thing right? Like the founding fathers.

Well, sort of. Two of the presidents were founding fathers, while the other two were not...

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 12-21-2010, 12:22 AM

Right. But I meant their offices were highly influential. Zorn is influential but it'd be a bit like putting Clinton or Reagan on mt. Rushmore.

SATCHMO · 12-21-2010, 01:43 AM

I basically consider Zorn an avant-garde composer and visionary . Yeah, a lot of the stuff he's done falls into the jazz vein, but I'm really hesitant to consider him a jazz icon.

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 12-21-2010, 01:50 AM

See that's what I was getting at, but as far as virtuosity on the saxophone, I think he even surpasses Coleman. I sort of see him as the ultimate saxophonist, but yeah... He's not exactly an icon.

SATCHMO · 12-21-2010, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan

See that's what I was getting at, but as far as virtuosity on the saxophone, I think he even surpasses Coleman. I sort of see him as the ultimate saxophonist, but yeah... He's not exactly an icon.

"wait... What that mothe****er just say?"

EDIT: Kidding, but seriously, it's fitting that Coltrane's initials are JC.

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 12-21-2010, 02:33 AM

Haha, I knew I'd get flack for that. Coltrane is great but as far as I know he never approached Zorn's speed.

SATCHMO · 12-21-2010, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan

Haha, I knew I'd get flack for that. Coltrane is great but as far as I know he never approached Zorn's speed.

Yeah, but virtuosity of that nature is oversold on most instruments, but the saxophone is such a legato instrument, that I feel all virtuosity is to be found in the subtleties that players are able to bring out of the instrument, how well they can make it talk and breath.
Listen to the staccato melody in Sonny Rollins' St. Thomas, or Coltrane's 'Breathiness' in his solo on Miles' Flamenco Sketches, or even Coleman Hawkins' vibrato-- yeah, the other great Coleman saxophonist, on Body and Soul and you see that the devil really is in the details, the subtle ones, at least.

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 12-21-2010, 02:56 AM

That's interesting point and I think on that level alot of people surpass Zorn. At the same time, his abrasive style is a selling point for me. I guess it
Could be compared on some level to the subtle nature of the classical
Guitar to the shredding of an electric.

SATCHMO · 12-21-2010, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan

That's interesting point and I think on that level alot of people surpass Zorn. At the same time, his abrasive style is a selling point for me. I guess it
Could be compared on some level to the subtle nature of the classical
Guitar to the shredding of an electric.

I think Zorn's abrasiveness is mind staggering in a way that even I can appreciate.

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 12-21-2010, 03:16 AM

Yeah, it's good stuff. It can get almost indistinguishable from human screams at times. Of course, he's also put out a fair amount of unlistenable material. Duck call albums, namely.

12-21-2010, 12:22 AM	#22 (permalink)
~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,538	Right. But I meant their offices were highly influential. Zorn is influential but it'd be a bit like putting Clinton or Reagan on mt. Rushmore.

12-21-2010, 01:43 AM	#23 (permalink)
SATCHMO Al Dente Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,708	I basically consider Zorn an avant-garde composer and visionary . Yeah, a lot of the stuff he's done falls into the jazz vein, but I'm really hesitant to consider him a jazz icon.

12-21-2010, 01:50 AM	#24 (permalink)
~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,538	See that's what I was getting at, but as far as virtuosity on the saxophone, I think he even surpasses Coleman. I sort of see him as the ultimate saxophonist, but yeah... He's not exactly an icon.

12-21-2010, 02:33 AM	#26 (permalink)
~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,538	Haha, I knew I'd get flack for that. Coltrane is great but as far as I know he never approached Zorn's speed.

12-21-2010, 02:56 AM	#28 (permalink)
~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,538	That's interesting point and I think on that level alot of people surpass Zorn. At the same time, his abrasive style is a selling point for me. I guess it Could be compared on some level to the subtle nature of the classical Guitar to the shredding of an electric.

12-21-2010, 03:16 AM	#30 (permalink)
~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,538	Yeah, it's good stuff. It can get almost indistinguishable from human screams at times. Of course, he's also put out a fair amount of unlistenable material. Duck call albums, namely.