It's a shame...
 

I went to a record store and tried to buy Take Five by Dave Brubeck and the record store didn't have it. It was once the greatest selling Jazz albums of all time and now they don't have it. It's a Shame. They also didn't have Kind of Blue by Miles Davis. Soon in the Jazz section is only going to have pop standards no actual Jazz. In music theory in college we go over why some Jazz composers where so brilliant. I've liked Jazz for a while and recently found out my Dad does too. It once so popular (in my Dad's day) and now it seems like it's dying. The real sad thing is while alot of Jazz was pop not of all it was. Miles and Brubeck were geniuses with rhythmn using synocopation to create dissonance rather than the traditional classical way of using harmony. Soon the only place you'll hear about those guys will be in college like so many other classical composers (i.e. Prokofiev, Saite, Stravinsky, Josquin to name a few). It's a shame.

It really is a shame...

I agree, jazz, real jazz- not Bolton, seems to fading. I think it has a lot to do with the short attention spans of the Spears generation. Music has been devalued, and is now 'Sonic wallpaper' or backround noise for other activities.
People aren't willing to 'Just listen' for 40 min. or so and pay attention to what's going on. Lots of people who come over to spin to lp's comment after how much they enjoyed listening as an activity, not just sound.
I also think the crossover points are suffering with industry values on sales not quality. Tool or Volta fans need more access to King Crimson and other older prog. I remember hearing alot of Allman Brother's band type guitar stuff in Coltrane and Davis on first listenings. (Of course it's the other way around, but most of us as our tastes widen work backwards)

/rant

Seems to be fading? Used to be popular? Enlighten me, why are jazz composers so brilliant? Could they compose an argument with a vocabulary larger than the average American second grade student?

Out of the three of us, I'm apparently the only one who's looking. I don't see any issue with the current state of jazz. And furthermore I don't see any issues you've raised except for these two minor ones:

1. Jazz doesn't get played on Casey's top 40 any longer and kids don't troll the mall skatting.

2. That you needed to flex the minor amount of jazz knowledge you had and decided to come flex it over this pressing issue.

I know of at least 7 places in this city where I can see a jazz band play. I heard new jazz stuff on a fairly regular basis not only from bands who are stand alone, but in the influences of countless bands that come cropping up all over. And everyone knows that should jazz have a massive overnight revival, there would a whole new argument about how it isn't real jazz; or pure jazz; or how all these kids that like [the green day of jazz] don't know what jazz is or anything about real jazz.

Maybe I'm being a little over aggressive here, but I can't honestly believe that anyone who listens to jazz has a problem getting jazz music. They have three major festivals in North America that I can think of off the top of my head and I'm sure theres countless more. There is probably about 42 jazz bands playing every day in New Orleans.

What i think is that people who aren't jazz fans or rather who don't actively seek it out would like it brought to your door step. Well normally I'd tell you tough luck, but if you're reading this, you've found MusicBanter where all you have to do is hang on for the ride and someone will do all the work for you.

Your explaining my point perfectly, thank you. Yes their are 42 (or when I was there alot more) bands playing at New Orleans. But to find great Jazz bands nowadays you have to be in New Orleans. You say can the compose an argument with a vocabulary above a second grader? You do realize that in Music Theory you study two types of music (actually five or six depending on whether you took some class about Josquin). Jazz and Classical (Baroque, Classical, Romantic and Neoclassical). Why do you think Jazz is in there? Because it's old Music? Of course not it's because the greatest people at rhythm who have ever lived were Jazz composer. They used Synocopation (empasizing notes that are not on the beat) to create Dissoance. It's not easy to do and thats completely apart from the many Jazz composers brilliant chord progressions (I think John Coltrane was the best at this). 3 major festivals (and at the New Orleans festival only one tent acutally has Jazz)!? Do you know how many classical festivals there are? No it's damn hard to count. There was an age when Jazz was much bigger than classical. I have no problem getting Jazz off itunes of other sources of questionable legality. I'm saying that they didn't have Take Five by Dave Brubeck one of the all time greatest selling Jazz albums. That's infuriating. Seriously that would be like not having a single recording of Beethoven's Ninth. It just shouldn't happen.

There's lots of great jazz in Chicago too. Just because you're studying music theory doesn't mean you've suddenly discovered the secret to what makes music good or that everyone should listen to classical and jazz. There are rock bands that are just as syncopated and dissonant as any of your jazz greats... everyone is going to listen what they're going to listen to and chances are they don't need you to educate them. Also, I don't know where you developed this elitist view that classical composers are only being discussed in colleges... there are plenty of people interested in classical music who aren't studying music theory.

Typical student

Goes on & on & on about the decline of society in some kind of long winded thesis about some everyday non event & it never once occurred to him to ask the guy behind the counter to order it for him.

Make a thread in the Lounge.
Title it ...'My Opinion Of Music and the Ins and Outs of a Ducks Arse'.

Get it all out. Get it all of your chest...



















...then FUCK OFF!

Agin completely wrong. I live in Pittsburgh and there was just one here recently. It was very good. Also there was one in Liverpool Ohio? i dont remeber town exactly, about 2 months ago. Also if you v ever been to NYC/Chicago theres TONS of great jazz clubs concerts and such.

I never said anything about classical music only being studied in college. You must've read my post and not the one above me. I was explaining why Jazz composers are brillant. They moderninzed syncopation, and while there are rock bands that use these techniques it's almost for certain that they have influence from these Jazz guys (or an influence from an influence) and learned it from them. I liked classical music a long time before I ever went to college, but it made me appreciate it alot more. All I orginally posted was it's a shame that Jazz is not going to survive much longer. As for a certain few composers you don't hear about till college let me ask you have you ever heard of Josquin. In his day he was hailed as the greatest musician who ever lived and so much of music that everyone uses to day was invented by him. You got to realize that modern music just isn't as good. Yes there are great Jazz bands still playing while there will continue to be, but when so many people listen to music that is literally the same thing over and over music IS declining. Jazz got it the worst and that's all I ever said.

Jazz-mmm..nice. Sorry can't get John Thomson from the Fast Show out of my head!

everything before this in r-t's post is unecessary.

There's a decline in music because a store doesn't have a certain album?

YouTube - the fast show - jazz club xmas special

Nice!

Ok I'm not sure what point of yours I've proved, I said the current state of Jazz music is fine, you said it was in decline.

I said I can find new jazz constantly, you said you can't find a CD at a store (you're problem there might be the store by the way.) Not that it should matter, I went to our local indie chain and couldn't get Levon Helm's new CD. It happened to be sold out but there created iTunes for a reason. Burn the damn thing.

Why should they have Take 5? Or any Alfred Brendel covering Beethoven? Stores are businesses. They don't stock their shelves with elitist philosophy and stand on principle, their children need to eat. If its a chain, they need to keep sales moving.

Theres not going to be a music chain store that is the aural equivalent of McDonalds. For anything worth while, you have to work for it. For better quality you have to pay a little more. This is the way of the world.

And the vocabulary comment wasn't aimed a jazz composers it was aimed at you. Jumping the gun their sally. I took roughly 7 years of composition theory, I played piano for 5 and I graduated college with 2 degrees in arrogant elitism (eng, polisci). If its an elitist-off that you want, you can have it, but coming at me with a text book knowledge and zero real world application isn't going to get you anywhere.

And by the way, I'd put money on half of Brubeck's sales being from music teachers getting something to teach people about alternative time signatures, and the other half because when it came out it was the poppiest **** going. If you're going to complain make it about someone worth a damn like Art Tatum.

Did you know even Vladimir Horowitz liked Art Tatum. That I find hard to believe but it's a story told time and time again by jazz musicians. Vladmir Horowitz had no respect for Arthur Rubinstein yet he thought Art Tatum was one of the greatest pianists of the day. Still Art Tatum sounds like Micheal Angelo Batio on guitar. There's generally no melody just extremely fast playing. Yeah sure Take Five was the poppiest "****", and one of the most popular which is why you should still be able to find it in a damn record store like you can find any crooners entire discography. Have you been to a Jazz festival recently, There's no Jazz. In the New Orleans one they play Cajuin, Rock, Hip Hop, Zydeco, Country, Rthyhm and Blues and very little Jazz. Just take the most famous Frank Zappa quote, "Jazz isn't dead it just smells funny". I'm no more Elitist than any kid who listens to virtually any kind of music. They all think their opinon is right and so do you. I never checked for Brendel, but they sure as hell have Horowitz or Rubinstein and definatly Herbert Von Karajan even Leonard Bernstein. Leonard Berstein was the poppiest "****" around when it came out. As for the Second grade comment, and you claiming to be an English major, you know it sounded incredible racist rather than your actual point. I seriously thought it was a slur against African Americans, but I guess you just didn't get that, that was what it implied.

Now you have my undivided attention.

I'd like to know how Big3 claiming to be an English major sounded "incredibly racist".
Further more I'd like to know exactly, in detail please, how you "seriously" construed it to be "a slur against African Americans", because it seems Big3 wasn't the only one who didn't get it.

Incredibly...neither did I.

Care to elaborate?

I thought it was a slur against stupid people myself.

Racist!

Hey, no one cares what you learned in music history.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it classical music that uses syncopation to create dissonance, whereas in jazz it is the norm? Furthermore, isn't that irrelevant when considering the "worthiness" of a particular style of music? Syncopation is no more a difficult concept than any other element of musical theory.

This apparent snobbery, found particularly in the followers of jazz and classical music, is no different to the blind fanaticism shown by followers of all other genres and in some cases, particular artists. Truth be known, good music is good music irrespective of genre. To disregard an entire genre due to nothing but prejudice (to pre-judge) is one and the same as putting a specific genre on a pedestal. To do so implies a closed mind; one which cannot truly be enjoying music for what it is, since enjoyable music can be found everywhere.

Now to the point of the thread, which seems to be asking why a particular store did not stock Dave Brubeck's Take Five. Could it not be that the album in question is so popular the store had simply sold out? The secondary point, is jazz music dying, is quite obviously nonsense. Jazz is dying no more so than classical, rock, blues and any other genre you care to mention. The majority of available music will be whatever is popular at any given time and the rest will be the best of what came before.

Dave

What? They can actually order a specific item from a distributor? Damn people. When was the last time some of you had a face to face conversation with someone that didn't involve order a Big Mac? I miss the record store here where you could walk in on any given day and indulge yourself in a conversation with someone who, like many of us, knew a little bit about music, theory, structure, rhythm, history and so on.