I say hi, you say low

**Marie Monday** · 10-29-2018, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 66Sexy

He has no purpose beyond being the bridge between Angel and Spike.

He does, a little. It's about the problems Buffy dating a normal guy, or in general problems of guys dating girls who are stronger/dominant/bring in the money. But that doesn't help the fact that he's very boring.

Oriphiel · 10-30-2018, 03:57 PM

I really do think that it was intentional, not just overtly but in a subtle way that a lot of people missed.

Like how throughout Season 5, they really tried to get the audience to be mad at Dawn for getting in the way, butting into the continuity, whining, etc. They wanted her to be sort of intrusive, and annoying. Hell, even Buffy seriously considers just giving up and letting Glory take her. And it all culminates in the pivotal moment where Buffy and the gang have to talk about whether or not they're going to kill her to save the world, and you realize "Holy ****, Dawn is just an accurate representation of a teenager, and not even all that annoying of one in the long run, and yet like 90% of the audience is cheering for her death, and even mailing waves of 'Kill Dawn' letters", a realization that ultimately makes Buffy's seemingly stubborn decision look more like the only decision that she could have made.

In that same way, the audience was meant to yawn at Riley and wish that he would go away so Buffy could get back to ass kicking instead of worrying about him. And when he finally leaves, it's like, "Holy ****, Riley was actually an awesome guy who gave up everything for someone that he knew didn't even really love him, knew how to kick some serious ass, had a great sense of humor, and out of the context of the show would have been like ultimate marriage material, because he actually wasn't nearly as dull as the first impression painted him, it's just that everything else in the show was so over the top that people couldn't help but see him as a boring sort of anchor to reality".

And in that way, the characters of Dawn and Riley, the two most reviled in the history of the show, are both actually really interesting case studies in audience manipulation. Maybe not on the level of the baby in Eraserhead that everyone is like "OH GOD, KILL IT," and totally forgets that it's in all likelihood just an exaggerated personification of maliciousness applied by an unreliable narrator to a normal baby that doesn't actually know what the **** is going on. But still interesting.

The Batlord · 10-30-2018, 04:03 PM

Yes but Dawn fit into the show and was entertaining. Riley never was. He was legit boring as a person.

Oriphiel · 10-30-2018, 04:12 PM

If by fit, you mean forcefully injected by a bunch of Italian monks, sure.

**Marie Monday** · 10-31-2018, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

If by fit, you mean forcefully injected by a bunch of Italian monks, sure.

To be fair, there are stranger things about the show. Like Willow's early-seasons fashion sense.

Oriphiel · 10-31-2018, 10:15 AM

Aw come on, early Willow's wardrobe was adorable and you know it

**Marie Monday** · 10-31-2018, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

Aw come on, early Willow's wardrobe was adorable and you know it

Of course.

**Marie Monday** · 10-31-2018, 11:39 AM

But still later seasons cute/sexy Willow > early seasons adorable Willow.

In hindsight, I should have just made this the official BtVS thread.

Oriphiel · 11-11-2018, 05:34 PM

Best non-main Buffy villain:

**Marie Monday** · 11-12-2018, 01:29 AM

eww no.
Although the fact that he's so repulsive probably means that you're right

10-30-2018, 03:57 PM	#62 (permalink)
Oriphiel Ask me how! Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: The States Posts: 5,354	I really do think that it was intentional, not just overtly but in a subtle way that a lot of people missed. Like how throughout Season 5, they really tried to get the audience to be mad at Dawn for getting in the way, butting into the continuity, whining, etc. They wanted her to be sort of intrusive, and annoying. Hell, even Buffy seriously considers just giving up and letting Glory take her. And it all culminates in the pivotal moment where Buffy and the gang have to talk about whether or not they're going to kill her to save the world, and you realize "Holy **, Dawn is just an accurate representation of a teenager, and not even all that annoying of one in the long run, and yet like 90% of the audience is cheering for her death, and even mailing waves of 'Kill Dawn' letters", a realization that ultimately makes Buffy's seemingly stubborn decision look more like the only decision that she could have made. In that same way, the audience was meant to yawn at Riley and wish that he would go away so Buffy could get back to ass kicking instead of worrying about him. And when he finally leaves, it's like, "Holy , Riley was actually an awesome guy who gave up everything for someone that he knew didn't even really love him, knew how to kick some serious ass, had a great sense of humor, and out of the context of the show would have been like ultimate marriage material, because he actually wasn't nearly as dull as the first impression painted him, it's just that everything else in the show was so over the top that people couldn't help but see him as a boring sort of anchor to reality". And in that way, the characters of Dawn and Riley, the two most reviled in the history of the show, are both actually really interesting case studies in audience manipulation. Maybe not on the level of the baby in Eraserhead that everyone is like "OH GOD, KILL IT," and totally forgets that it's in all likelihood just an exaggerated personification of maliciousness applied by an unreliable narrator to a normal baby that doesn't actually know what the ** is going on. But still interesting. __________________ ---------------------- \|---Mic's Albums---\| ---------------------- ----------------------------- \|---Deafbox Industries---\| -----------------------------

10-30-2018, 04:12 PM	#64 (permalink)
Oriphiel Ask me how! Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: The States Posts: 5,354	If by fit, you mean forcefully injected by a bunch of Italian monks, sure. __________________ ---------------------- \|---Mic's Albums---\| ---------------------- ----------------------------- \|---Deafbox Industries---\| -----------------------------

10-31-2018, 10:15 AM	#66 (permalink)
Oriphiel Ask me how! Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: The States Posts: 5,354	Aw come on, early Willow's wardrobe was adorable and you know it __________________ ---------------------- \|---Mic's Albums---\| ---------------------- ----------------------------- \|---Deafbox Industries---\| -----------------------------

11-11-2018, 05:34 PM	#69 (permalink)
Oriphiel Ask me how! Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: The States Posts: 5,354	Best non-main Buffy villain: __________________ ---------------------- \|---Mic's Albums---\| ---------------------- ----------------------------- \|---Deafbox Industries---\| -----------------------------