New and Curious

Neapolitan · 06-23-2012, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottishSte

Thatd probably help:
Metal
Pop
Jazz
Folk

I don't care much for Metal or Pop either so I can help you continue actively avoiding them if you like.

Trollheart · 06-23-2012, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

You haven't heard enough jazz if you'd describe all jazz and "wandering and pretentious". Whether it's your cup of tea or not, I really don't see how you could apply those words to something like this:

Yeah, I should have qualified that. Sorry. I meant "all the jazz I've heard". But as sweeping a statement as that is, it's equally as sweeping to say you couldn't understand anyone not liking jazz. To each his own; I was just pointing out it certainly is possible not to like any particular genre.

EDIT: I'll listen to that tomorrow and let you know: it's too late now to listen to it at a decent enough volume that I could hear it, and I'm off to bed anyway...

Neapolitan · 06-23-2012, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Gucci: Instrumental metal (Instru-metal?)

Tell me more!
As for jazz, yeah I dislike it too. I find it overpretentious, meandering and boring. It freezes my soul. And yes, I'm aware of the irony of being a prog rock fan and talking about wandering, pretentious music (!) but jazz just does nothing for me. I think it's fair to say that I can envision anyone having a problem with any genre of music, so I can't subscribe to your notion that no-one could dislike jazz. There are loads of forms of music I dislike, for instance punk, reggae, a lot of soulless pop, a lot of country....

If you want to understand the inspiration behind any organ/keyboard solo in 70's Prog or Hard Rock, listen to Jimmy Smith. To me there's nothing pretentious about him - he's the genuine article, the real McCoy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottishSte

Thatd probably help:
Metal
PopJazz
Folk

If you really want to immerse yourself into the world of Pop music the best place to start is to just listen to this song over and over and over and over again 'til it doesn't make any sense any more.

**Janszoon** · 06-23-2012, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

If you really want to immerse yourself into the world of Pop music the best place to start is to just listen to this song over and over and over and over again 'til it doesn't make any sense any more.

I don't think driving new members to suicide is a very good idea.

mr dave · 06-24-2012, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottishSte

Thatd probably help:
Metal
Pop
Jazz
Folk

3 questions to help focus recommendations.

Why do you avoid these genres?
Why do you want to widen your taste to include them?
Is there any miniscule element of these genres that you actually already like?

Trollheart · 06-24-2012, 12:16 PM

OK now I've had time to listen to both recommended tracks, here are my observations:

Jelly Roll Morton: not meandering no, but I really did not like this. Does nothing for me at all, had to force myself to get to the end.

Jimmy Smith: very accomplished, good organ solo but again not really my thing.

The only reason I posted about not liking jazz was that I could not believe anyone could be so --- perhaps unintentionally --- arrogant as to make the statement Gucci Little Piggy made that they could not understand anyone not liking jazz. I mean, no matter the genre, there's always going to be someone who doesn't like it. You can debate the pros of jazz, punk, emo, whatever back and forth with me, but in the end if I don't like it I don't like it. For someone to decide that because they like something, it's impossible to conceive that anyone else could dislike it, is to me the worst sort of conceit, and the kind of thing that probably need an "imo" after it.

No matter how much I love a band/artiste/genre, or even outside of that, book, author, film, football club, I know that not everyone will see it as I do, and am prepared to accept that other views exist. I couldn't truly say something like "What? You don't like Pink Floyd?" as a for-instance, "EVERYONE loves Pink Floyd! How can you not? How could anyone dislike them?"

As I said, it was the sense of arrogance --- again, I accept, perhaps not intentional --- in that statement that drove me to declare my dislike of jazz, which is where this all sparked off.

And as it happens, yes, I still have no interest in jazz, just does nothing for me. I'm sure it's a great genre for those who like it, and I accept it has had a big effect on most music, but it's not for me.

One of my adopt-a-newbies mentioned that she hates classical music with a passion: she actually has to leave when it's on. I tried to convince her --- briefly --- that it wasn't all bad but she would not be moved. In that case, I just accepted she was not into that music and left it. I did not think, or advance the opinion, that "no-one could dislike classical music!"

We all have our likes and dislikes, and this needs to be accepted by Gucci Little Piggy: there are things in this life that people don't like, no matter how much you may like them. That's just how people are.

It's longwinded but that was the point I was trying to make: not that I hate jazz particularly, but that it's unfair to tell someone they CAN'T dislike something, or that you don't understand how they can think that way.

That was all.

**Janszoon** · 06-24-2012, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Jelly Roll Morton: not meandering no, but I really did not like this. Does nothing for me at all, had to force myself to get to the end.

Well that was really my point. Whether you like it or not, it's certainly not meandering or pretentious.

I am curious though, is there really no jazz at all that you like? Since I know you like a lot of prog, I'd think there'd be at least some jazz fusion that would appeal to you.

Trollheart · 06-24-2012, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Well that was really my point. Whether you like it or not, it's certainly not meandering or pretentious.

I am curious though, is there really no jazz at all that you like? Since I know you like a lot of prog, I'd think there'd be at least some jazz fusion that would appeal to you.

No, it's not meandering or pretentious, I'll certainly give it that. But I just didnt like it: sounded a little 20/30s for me, which is an era of music I just do not like.

As for jazz fusion, well all I can tell you (and I have no idea if this is right or not) is that I've listened to Santana's "Caravanserai" again after 30-some years, and didn't hate it as much as I originally did. But is that jazz fusion? I dont know.

Tell you what: throw a few vids my way, see if anything grabs me. I'm never ready to totally discount a genre, but my thinking towards jazz is admittedly already coloured by what I've heard up to now, and what I've heard I don't like.

But you never know...

Neapolitan · 06-24-2012, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

OK now I've had time to listen to both recommended tracks, here are my observations:

Jelly Roll Morton: not meandering no, but I really did not like this. Does nothing for me at all, had to force myself to get to the end.

Jimmy Smith: very accomplished, good organ solo but again not really my thing.

Well thanks for giving it an honest try. I didn't turn you on to a new artist but seeing you give credit where credit's due to an artist I like means lot too. As for me to get into Jimmy Smith it was a shoe in, because I was fan of Steve Winwood first (not to mention a few other keyboard/organ players) so it wasn't too far of a step for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

No, it's not meandering or pretentious, I'll certainly give it that. But I just didnt like it: sounded a little 20/30s for me, which is an era of music I just do not like.

There is are very little I know about the 20/30's but a few I heard I like. I think the biggest draw back for some to like the music of that era is the quality of recording equipment then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Tell you what: throw a few vids my way, see if anything grabs me. I'm never ready to totally discount a genre, but my thinking towards jazz is admittedly already coloured by what I've heard up to now, and what I've heard I don't like.

But you never know...

I think that would make either be a great topic for a thread or some new sub-section of your journal.

**Janszoon** · 06-24-2012, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

No, it's not meandering or pretentious, I'll certainly give it that. But I just didnt like it: sounded a little 20/30s for me, which is an era of music I just do not like.

Well, it's from 1926 so it's not surprising that it sounds "a little 20/30s".

I do have to say I can't imagine dismissing and entire era of music like that though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

As for jazz fusion, well all I can tell you (and I have no idea if this is right or not) is that I've listened to Santana's "Caravanserai" again after 30-some years, and didn't hate it as much as I originally did. But is that jazz fusion? I dont know.

Tell you what: throw a few vids my way, see if anything grabs me. I'm never ready to totally discount a genre, but my thinking towards jazz is admittedly already coloured by what I've heard up to now, and what I've heard I don't like.

But you never know...

I'm not really a fan of Santana so I can't speak to the merits (or lack thereof) of that album, nor am I super well-versed in fusion, but I'll see if I can come up with something for you to listen to.

06-24-2012, 12:16 PM	#16 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,992	OK now I've had time to listen to both recommended tracks, here are my observations: Jelly Roll Morton: not meandering no, but I really did not like this. Does nothing for me at all, had to force myself to get to the end. Jimmy Smith: very accomplished, good organ solo but again not really my thing. The only reason I posted about not liking jazz was that I could not believe anyone could be so --- perhaps unintentionally --- arrogant as to make the statement Gucci Little Piggy made that they could not understand anyone not liking jazz. I mean, no matter the genre, there's always going to be someone who doesn't like it. You can debate the pros of jazz, punk, emo, whatever back and forth with me, but in the end if I don't like it I don't like it. For someone to decide that because they like something, it's impossible to conceive that anyone else could dislike it, is to me the worst sort of conceit, and the kind of thing that probably need an "imo" after it. No matter how much I love a band/artiste/genre, or even outside of that, book, author, film, football club, I know that not everyone will see it as I do, and am prepared to accept that other views exist. I couldn't truly say something like "What? You don't like Pink Floyd?" as a for-instance, "EVERYONE loves Pink Floyd! How can you not? How could anyone dislike them?" As I said, it was the sense of arrogance --- again, I accept, perhaps not intentional --- in that statement that drove me to declare my dislike of jazz, which is where this all sparked off. And as it happens, yes, I still have no interest in jazz, just does nothing for me. I'm sure it's a great genre for those who like it, and I accept it has had a big effect on most music, but it's not for me. One of my adopt-a-newbies mentioned that she hates classical music with a passion: she actually has to leave when it's on. I tried to convince her --- briefly --- that it wasn't all bad but she would not be moved. In that case, I just accepted she was not into that music and left it. I did not think, or advance the opinion, that "no-one could dislike classical music!" We all have our likes and dislikes, and this needs to be accepted by Gucci Little Piggy: there are things in this life that people don't like, no matter how much you may like them. That's just how people are. It's longwinded but that was the point I was trying to make: not that I hate jazz particularly, but that it's unfair to tell someone they CAN'T dislike something, or that you don't understand how they can think that way. That was all. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018