mr dave

that's ok maybe the D word wasn't the most appropriate.

basically there's no right or wrong way to organize your band. regardless of what method you choose to run it i still think it needs to be communicated clearly to the other members as soon as possible. that's really all i've been trying to get at. if you have a plan for your band, let the others know what it is and be totally honest with yourself and your friends as to what that plan truly entails.

if you want to keep it totally open with full equal collaborations from everyone... GREAT! just make sure everyone else is on the same page and pitching ideas.

same as if you want to be the leader and have the final word yourself, let everyone know from the get go that it's your band.

the last bit i mentioned yesterday revolved more around the 2nd situation, where there is a clear leader in the group. asking a instrumentalist to do something different might not be the nicest thing ever, but it's not asking them to run counter to their physiology.

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Arya Stark

I know what you mean, there is no right or wrong way.
I don't know, I guess I have my own rules and conditions that I need.
I don't like drama in my band, so I'm really sexist in that aspect and don't want other girls in my band.
I don't want someone who's not open to all kinds of music.
I want someone who's willing to experiment.

When it's someone else's band, I like consulting with them for everything on my own, do you know what I mean? I don't like for them to tell me what I can and cannot do all of the time.
I quit my old band when they were telling me I could only be in one band at a time incase we got famous.
I didn't want to get famous just yet, I just wanted to sing.

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MAStudent

so all I mean to say is define at the begninning how decisions will be made.

Is one person in charge?

Is everyone in charge?

My band has a core of three friends (vox/bass/drums), and we decide what we will play and where and when. The other two can like it or find another band. Of course we three have very similar taste, so we'll probably like what the other 2 suggest.

I was booking gigs, practice, and doing all the PR, while my buddy bass player did the recording and the sound, and the singer (his girlfriend) picked the songs. He's a nadgery little f'er though (nag/ badger), and kept nadgering me about every little thing. Really, this is my hobby. I am playing the music I like at the places Iike for the $ I like, and don't have time or energy to be nadgered.

So I told him he was smarter than me and had more and better ideas (he doesn't, I'm great at booking, and even though he is a better musician, he still has to ask me for booking tips), and why didn't he take over as band leader and do the booking.

He (smugly) graciously took over the booking, saying it was big of me to admit it. Now I am stress free, still playing what, when, and where I want. But I retain my "core 3" status for veto power and suggestions. I am enjoying not being in charge.

However, I had a lot of stress for a while, because we didn't say at the BEGINNING who would decide and how things would be decided, beyond "us 3 will decide".

I got tired of laying ground work, only to have them change their minds or add a step that messed up my ground work...So, they can do all the work, and I'll just enjoy the benefits.

mr dave

exactly, it's a horrible feeling and completely detrimental to what made playing in a band so great in the first place. unfortunately a lot of people are passive aggressive and would rather not be direct in fear of being seen as bossy.

@ AwwSugar - your personal rules and conditions are exactly the kind of stuff that we're getting at in terms of what needs to be discussed as early as possible within the band setting. while they seem perfectly reasonable to me, from the sound of things they likely weren't with your old bandmates.

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Arya Stark

They honoured my requests pretty well aside from the fact that they were always telling me what to do.

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mr dave

and as you proved when you quit, that's exactly the sort of passive toxicity that kills a band when there's no established leadership. since i doubt you would have joined the band if they were clear about the '1 band limit in case you got famous' clause from the start.

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Arya Stark

I suppose that makes sense.
But they were my friends, so I don't know.

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Azucar y Especia. My blog.

MAStudent

I was doing all the work to print out the set lists and make sure they were available for everyone at gigs, so I made the set lists.

This is a good example of laying ground work. You can't just throw songs together. Just like a DJ, they need to lead into each other. So i put them together how I wanted, to see if i was right/ see if I was reading things the right way. Then I could see the crowd response and make adjustments.

So the singer starts changing the set lists. Now I can't see how my ideas worked in order to adjust them and build my crowd reading skills. To me this is important, as it shapes how you write songs.

I figured if she was going to take over ****ing with the set lists, she could do the ground work of printing them and remembering to bring them. So now thats on her and she doesn't do it. She brings one old set list she looks at and calls out the next song. It kinda works, but the guitar player is alaways asking what key everything is in, because he can't be prepared.

Unfortunately, and I'm sure this goes for me too musicians are just difficult to deal with, with our varied opinions and artsy behavior.
So, I say define at the beginning how things will go, who will decide what, and how problems will be resolved. Otherwise you waste al your time disagreeing, and not enough time doing what got you there in the first place- loving playing music with these people.