VEGANGELICA

Hi, again, Toretorden (and others),

I've discovered MB has a 100,000 word limit for a post (I bet I'm the first to actually discover that! ), and so the second part of my previous letter has had to become CHAPTER 6: ANIMAL MUSIC.

Speaking of whales, whose vocalizations (at least those of humpbacks) are often called "singing," the area of research into non-human animals' appreciation of music is one that is gaining momentum and interest.

Recently scientists studying animals who can "keep a beat" and seem to like to do so (similar to many people on MB) found that parrots and perhaps an elephant (based on videos) can do so, but cats and dogs and chimps cannot (but it is not known for other non-human apes). The researchers said that these animals who like to keep a beat and move to it "shared with people some ability to mimic sounds they hear," and "the brain circuitry for that ability lets people learn to talk, and evidently also to dance or tap their toes to music, suggests Aniruddh Patel of The Neurosciences Institute in San Diego" (CBS news online, "Animals shown to 'Dance' to music," April 30, 2009)

From what I've read, the human ability to appreciate and create music is based on brain areas we share with quite a few non-human animals (such as parrots). The whole area of the relationship between biology, language, emotion, and music is a very interesting one. I wonder...is there a thread on the Biology of Music? I'll have to check! Do any of you have stories about your animal friends and the impact music has on them? --Erica

AshleighJane

lol i completely agree :]
i mean seriously no one wants to hear a bunch of people whining about eating cows...

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My love....If only he was still alive♥

VEGANGELICA

Hi, AshleighJane...
Thank you for sharing your views. Actually, there *are* quite a few people who like to hear others whine and even sing about eating cows. Generally, whatever the topic or type of music, there is at least *someone* somewhere on the planet who likes the message of a song or how it is presented. There are even people who like heavy metal! (gasp!) (I decided to give country music lovers a break, since I know they get a lot of flack).

AshleighJane, if you don't like to hear people whine about slaughtering and eating cows, how about calves, pigs, piglets, sheep, lambs, horses, goats, birds of all kinds, fish, cats, dogs, monkeys, apes, whales, and dolphins...most of whom people kill because, well, they just like how they taste? Do those animals *all* sit happily within your stomach? Do *any* cause a twinge of indigestion, and, if so, what are the reasons? Or, is how something tastes more important than all other concerns?

You may not realize that there is much more to veganism than concern about one animal species.

For example, do you support converting even more Brazilian rainforest to agricultural land to grow soybeans (for several years before the ground is spent) to ship to European markets to feed pigs for the wealthy?

Are you happy (or aware) that 1/3rd of the world's grain and 1/2 of the world's fish catch go to feeding livestock (Oxfam data), a huge diversion of money, time, and energy, while nearly 1 billion people on the planet try to survive on less than $1 per day, with over 800 million of them malnourished?

Those are all vegan causes and issues. I often find that many people don't know about the repercussions of our eating habits and food choices. I certainly didn't when I was a child growing up in the Midwest, because nobody talked...or sang...about treating animals kindly.

--Erica

Guybrush

Thanks for your insightful post! I think the message is basically that animals suffer in the industry which I completely agree with. It's one of the things consumers should be aware of and then decide accordingly.

Whaling is not a hot topic at all in Norway, it's just another hunt like there is on moose or ptarmigan (okay, with a small industry). People who are against hunting should of course be against whaling.

A problem with discussing whaling on the net is that there are tremendous amounts of fanaticism and misinformation out there, both about whales and whaling. Are you sure your numbers are correct by the way? Your catch number looks like two times the quota (~1000 I think) so they should be incorrect. Maybe you got the number for the total catch of minke whales worldwide?

Anyways, anyone supporting whaling openly on an international forum is likely to get death threats, at least I did the last time I did it and I wasn't even being supportive towards whaling - I was just trying to be a little factual. I've actually discussed whaling with Lars Walløe who used to be Norway's representative in the IWC (been to his lectures), but I don't really discuss it on forums anymore.

What I can say is that Norway stopped whaling and did extensive research on the minke whale population and after a while they decided that whaling could be resumed because the population was large and healthy and no ecological problems were predicted. Minke whales are now hunted in very low numbers because there's little market and, as you say, it's mostly for cultural reasons. There's a lot of international pressure and I believe it's managed rather well (quotas are well within the "safe zone"). Thus, the problem with norwegian whaling is not ecological - no species are going extinct - it's if it's right or not to kill minke whales for food and to preserve culture. That's what people should make up their minds about.

I expect you know this, but it's a little info for those who don't. :p

If anyone wants to discuss it, feel free to send me a PM!

edit :

By the way, I'm just curious - are polar bears hunted in the US? I've lived up in the arctic and I've seen pelts from Canada, but I'm a little unsure if they're hunted in Alaska or not.

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Something Completely Different

VEGANGELICA

Hi, Toretorden,
Yikes, I don't want you to get any (or any more!) death threats! It is very sad that people who care about whales would threaten to kill people...as if it were okay to kill a human or even to scare one!

Thanks for asking me about my numbers, because it gave me a chance to doublecheck them and find you are right. I got my Minke whale information from Wikipedia on Norwegian whaling, and reading more carefully I saw it said that the number of Minke whales killed by Norwegians was 2000 whales per year *before* the moratorium, and now the quota is a little over 1000, and rarely do people in Norway kill that many whales. So, thanks for noticing my error.

You asked if it legal to kill polar bears in the U.S. Best I can tell, it is not legal to hunt and kill polar bears in the U.S., but it is legal in Canada, where people kill around 500 polar bears per year (Wikipedia).

--Erica

The Abominable Homan

Hey, welcome, though I'm probably just as new as you.

Now I'm going to always think of Cattle Decapitation when I think of your band; I haven't gotten around to listening to them yet, but they seem to have a similar message in their lyrics. Just probably a bit more extreme (assuming you don't have gore related lyrics =P).

VEGANGELICA

Hey, The Abominable Homan,
Thanks for the hello! Yes, we are almost equally new to MB! Also, thank you for telling me about the vegetarian death metal group Cattle Decapitation, which I didn't know about. I just looked them up and, why, yes, they *do* have a similar message to ours. I think you are right...their lyrics are a wee bit more graphic and direct than mine. For example, they have an album or song called "Humans are Horrible," which I thought was amusing because it was so straightforward (and would be something I might say in my misanthropic moments but leave out of the music). Cattle Decapitation are marketing themselves to the death metal scene and apparently doing so very successfully. Their music is an interesting contrast: the brutal sound of death metal vs. the mostly loving message underlying it. It's fun for me to learn more about what other veggie people are doing out there! Their music rather warms my heart in a scary way. Thanks again for mentioning them, and I hope to "see" you around MB. Say, how did you learn about Cattle Decapitation? --Erica

The Abominable Homan

I actually just happened to find them when looking through some band shirts. The band name kind of intrigued me and I found it funny that the back of it said "GORE NOT CORE," so I looked into them.

I also find the album cover for Karma. Bloody. Karma rather funny.

Freebase Dali

It's me, you nonce. lol...
I make music.

BTW, Erica, thank you! I guess you heard my track on the Myspace thing? I should really update that page.

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VEGANGELICA

Hi Freebase!
Yes, soon after I first visited MB last month and started looking at the content of people's posts, I saw that your posts about drums/recording etc. were very knowledgeable and thorough, and so I checked your contact information in case there was a link to your music, and there was!

I do hope you'll put more songs up, soon. As I understand it from reading your prologue/"epilogue" post, MySpace was having some technical difficulties, which perhaps dissuaded you from uploading more?

When I first visited your MySpace and listened, I thought several (many) things, including these:

(1) I love the name: truthful fiction.

(2) The B/W picture is fascinating. At first I didn't see the whole image (head, ear, second arm, etc.). It is like an ink(blood)blot picture and very thought-provoking. The picture repeats the concept of the name, which connects opposites (truth/fiction; black/white).

(3) The music: WOW! Technically perfect, but, beyond that, the song is hypnotic, with an eerie sweetness, plaintive quality, and rasping intensity that affects me a lot.

The classical sound of the acoustic guitar (I'm assuming that's you playing rather than using the synthesizer) begins the piece--beautiful, love the edgy sound of note-sliding. I enjoy that this acoustic beginning does not reveal where the song is going. It is like the paper on a gift that is being opened. It hints at what is underneath, but does not reveal it fully.

Then the electric-guitar-sounding synth (I'm assuming) begins to swell with a haunting quality, and soon the funky percussion starts, going in stereo from ear to ear. I like the fact that in the percussion the silences, like a held breath, are as meaningful as the actual hits.

The vocals are emotional and powerful...and I don't even know what all of the words are !...with perfect harmonization. I *would* like to learn the lyrics, even though for me the song works perfectly even without knowing the full meaning. The song *feels* like yearning and abandonment, despair and hope combined.

I've listened to the song oh, shall we say, several times now (!), and each time pick out new intricacies that keep my attention: for example, the whale-song like synthesizer, which haunts the background, and the percussion rhythm, which seems to change slightly each repetition (I'm still trying to figure out how many variations there are).

Still, none of those details are, for me, overshadowed by the feeling of the piece. It reminds me of classical music in several ways: it has a theme with variations; it evolves; and it has the same effect on me (or greater) than what are some of the most exhilarating parts of classical music...those moments when the music makes the hairs on your arm stand on end...not out of fear but because of the strong emotional content. Just like I said earlier, I find the piece to be mesmerizing.

--Erica