TheBig3

Disclaimer: Apparently this guy in the video comes with some baggage which you'll see highlighted throughout the conversation. I left the video because I'd rather people know than not (I didn't). But let's try to focus on the question of "is Indie commercialized BS?"

I'm on YouTube way too much, and frequently listen to arguments about music in general. I came across this video recently, and I thought he made some good points. I think he uses a wide definition of Indie, but he's pretty honest with his vantage point, and his argument isn't baseless.

Thoughts?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB-9j54uR64

rubber soul

I think as with anything, Indie has become a bit more commercialized over the years probably starting with the White Stripes. It doesn't mean that the music is necessarily bad (and I love the Stripes), but you always want to go where the money is so to speak.

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TheBig3

I always think the harbinger of a genre isn't the problem, it's the shills they get to do the same sound with less morals or principles.

• Nirvana has principles but Three Days Grace doesn't
• The White Stripes has principles but Rilo Kiley doesn't
• RATM has principles but Limp Bizkit doesn't

Again I think lumping The Stripes in with Death Cab, the Lumineers, and Sonic Youth feels a bit absurd. Maybe in 2002 it was fine. But now we need subgenres.

But his point about it not standing for anything, and catering to bored Midwesterners is an angle I've never really thought about. I was hardcore into Indie rock and to some extent other forms of indie bands.

Also his argument that Husker Du is an edgier REM was priceless.

Lisnaholic

Yes one or two good points in this video. I like how he says that Indie Music is defined by what it isn't - and that's why it took me ages to more-or-less work out which bands/music fell into the Indie category. If the word Indie implies some hostile stance against the musical establishment, then perhaps it's time for a new label; here on MB we have hedged our bets with "Indie & Alternative", and "Alternative" works better for me: music that isn't quite popular enough to be mainstream, a place for artists to experiment with pop-rock of their own choosing, without the pressure to come up with hit singles.

The guy admits he doesn't like the genre, but spends way too much time being scornful, not of the music, but of the way people write about the music, about the cars, clothes and lifestyle of people who listen to the music. The giveaway was when he mentions "hanging out with my exgirlfriend Donna and all her rich friends"; he's got some grievance about the way they use drugs, which again, is a bit adrift from the topic of the music.

When he focuses on the music, he makes this surprising statement: "I think art should have a very specific point of view and should slap you in the f***ing face with that point of view". As an example of this attitude he chooses ska. It's true that unlike Indie music, ska has an easily identifiable sound, but I wouldn't call that a point of view as such. I'm running through some artists and wondering how they measure up; did The Beatles have a specific point of view that they slapped you in the face with?

Overall, I feel like this is a guy who had to put up with his girlfriend's music for too long and is now getting his own back by asking, "Why can't Indie music be more like the kind of stuff I listen to?"

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"Am I enjoying this moment? I know of it and perhaps that is enough." - Sybille Bedford, 1953

Janszoon

I'm with you, Lisna. A lot of what he says is true, but it's also applicable to a lot of other music. The funniest part of the video—aside from him complaining about attention-seeking behavior on his YouTube channel—was how much of a hardcore fan cliché he is. While he was talking about how music "needs to stand for something", I was looking at all those stickers behind him thinking about how preachy bands like Earth Crisis and Shelter are and how much I don't think it enhances the music.

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A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man

Time & Place

25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die

last.fm

Queen Boo

Please don't share videos by the Punk Rock MBA, he sucks, nothing he says is insightful and he's a fascist, he follows ghouls like Matt Walsh on Twitter and his wife is an open bigot especially towards trans people, but he's one of those "hide your power level" types because he's a coward and knows that would get in the way of reaching a broader audience.

I was ready to make a longer more in depth post about the subject until I saw who this video is from, this scumbag doesn't deserve anyone's time or attention.

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https://www.twitch.tv/drrobuttnik

TheBig3

Oh ****, really? That's too bad, I kinda liked some of his takes. But Matt Walsh is everything I hate about Clown America.

Has someone punched up an article about all this? I'd like to look into it more. I also don't know what "hide your power level" means.

Lisnaholic

Well Queen Boo has an interesting insight into who this guy is, and a reminder of how you should be careful about taking internet stuff at face value.

Haha! Absolutely, Janszoon! Any artist who uses music to evangelize about some position, be it religious or political, is at risk of turning his song into an irritating one-message clunker in my opinion. Also, I suspect, the opinion of Chula V, who had this to say about guitarist Phil Keaggy:-

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"Am I enjoying this moment? I know of it and perhaps that is enough." - Sybille Bedford, 1953

Queen Boo

Ethan informed me about it, I already didn't like the guy and that didn't help.

"Hide your power level" is a term Neo-Nazis use on the internet to describe not being completely upfront about their beliefs because it makes it harder for them to recruit other people, and so they can avoid accountability. It's a Dragon Ball Z reference because they're all weebs.

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https://www.twitch.tv/drrobuttnik

TheBig3

Ok well he just made a video about how he might be autistic and doesn't want to come off like a dick. If Ethan is the Ethan of Crowquill fame - and I say this with love - but he was quick to man the ramparts as I recall.

I'll look into this more, but I do thank you for bringing it up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyc62g7YQM0