[QUOTE=loveissucide;755093]Actually that's bollocks.REM's influence in the 1980's was defining how what became known as "college rock" would sound by reinventing classic pop songcraft for the post-punk era and by establishing a touring circuit which would form the backbone of the indie scene.
Firstly,I fail to see how Oasis' music fits into "alternative rock" at all.Lyrically and sonically it has nothing in common whatsoever with the post-punk from which alternative rock stems, and if anything they're a traditionalist rock band.The template for contemporary pop balladeers was set by Jeff Buckley on Grace and Radiohead on The Bends...QUOTE]

Point taken. But you don't think that "The Bends" was more in the same vein of what you called "Traditionalist"? Really, it is a far cry from "OK Computer" and "Kid A". The song structure on that album is very Oasis-esque.

As in using a traditionalist song structure that's been in use since The Beatles and Dylan at the very earliest?The Bends' melodic songwriting has as much in common with Beatles as anything else.

Really? I disagree with that on so many levels. If anything, Oasis followed in the same tradition as the Beatles in my opinion, more so than Radiohead anyway. I'm not a huge Oasis fan. If anything, I've been a vehement Radiohead addict for years. But I fail to see the similarity. And Dylan was anything but Traditionalist. If anything, he ignored convention on several ocassions. In my opinion, he's become more traditional with age.

Oasis blatantly plagarised The Beatles throughout and regurgitated this influence(and that of The Stone Roses,The Kinks,The Sex Pistols,The Smiths and Sugar),whereas Radiohead are far superior heirs to the Beatles' tradition of innovation and experimentation by constantly reiinventing their sound and image with each new release,much as the Beatles went from "I Want To Hold Your Hand" to "Tomorrow Never Knows" to "A Day In The Life" to " I Am The Walrus" to "Happiness Is A Warm Gun", much as Radiohead went from the straightforward alt-rock of "Creep" to the emotive and influential "The Bends", the groundbreaking "OK Computer" to the full on experimentalism of Kid A/Amnesiac.Radiohead make infinitely better heirs to the Beatles' legacy of experimentalism and forward thinking than Oasis' simplistic regurgiatation of pre-existing songs.

I'm not disputing their superiority. It almost doesn't need saying. But to compare radiohead to the beatles simply because they exhibit change with each album is a bit inappropriate and inaccurate. Look at Wilcos transformation from "A.M." to now. Each album marks a huge changeup in style and direction, but that doesnt mean they even remotely resemble the beatles either sonically or stylistically. Musical growth did not start with the beatles. As far as style and sound go, Oasis was definitely influenced by the beatles. I wouldn't call an influence a blatant rip off. Elliott smith (who is also one of my favorites) would be easier to accuse of ripping off the beatles.

Sonic influence has nothing to do with it,it's the willingness to reinvent themselves and explore new territory that makes Wilco and Radiohead such outstanding heirs to the good aspects of the Beatles,not the simplistic sonic similiarities Elliot Smith and Oasis see as channeling The Beatles.

Sonic influence has an immense role in this discussion. Remember, we were talking about the Pixies' influence on the decade of music that followed (and you brought up the soft, loud, soft, loud set of dynamics--that sounds like an aspect of their sonic influence). I will not dispute that Radiohead, Wilco, and groups who are in a constant state of flux are far more fluent in artistic exploration--it goes without saying. But to say that this constant change in direction warrants a comparison to the Beatles, other than their inclination toward reinvention (and I understand that THIS is what you're saying) still misses the boat.

I mean, Hank Williams (I) strove to reinvent himself and released a few albums under the name Luke the Drifter. Dylan certainly carried on in this tradition with all the different persona's he created (and certainly with Jack Frost), but Dylan's music (the sonic components that make it up--accompaniment, vocal melodies, etc.) is really a far cry from Williams', although Dylan may have carried some of Williams' ideas to new, exciting places. And I would say the same thing for Radiohead. They took ideas that the Beatles brought to the table, and they expanded on them, whereas groups like Oasis just kind of spit out more of the same (and I definitely agree with you on that aspect now that I've had a chance to really think about it). But when I listen to Elliott Smith, sometimes I think "Damn, that was very Lennon," or "Damn, that was very McCartney", so on and so forth. You can't deny the importance of style when it comes to sonic influence....

I might say, in passing, that the difference between "A.M." and "Being There" is like the difference between "Aftermath" and "Exile on Main Street", but that doesn't mean that Wilco is carrying on with any real, startling similarity to the Rolling Stones, does it? Maybe in the manner in which they progress musically, but not in the music itself....

By the way, Loveissuicide, I want to thank you for engaging in an actual discussion. I get tired of the sycophantic garbage in some of these forums ("I love Muse cuz they're awesome, etc). and I am certainly tired of some of the ad hominem attacks that people shoot off when their point is being criticized ("You're wrong, the Who is the greatest rock 'n' roll group of all time, you dumb ***got", etc). So, thank you for the discussion.

Good point - but it would be nice if I could read some o' that good discussion about the Pixies here on the Pixies thread.

.

We got a little off topic hahah....but it began with the pixies...haha

Has anyone seen them at all in the last few years? I'm going to D.A.R. in DC on the 30th of November (I think) and was wondering how they compared to their recordings. I know I'll enjoy the show, I'm just curious if it'll be as much as I expect it too (they did take off for a long time, and we have yet to see a new release coming from them).

I like Where is my mind? Surfer Rosa..

Oh and also "Here comes your man" waves of mutilation

I saw them play in 2004. It was, I think, the first reunion tour that I went to and got to feel like an old person reliving my youth. This was 5 years ago but they sounded really good. Frank wasn't hitting the high notes as smoothly as on the old albums but overall the band played really with just as much intensity as you'd expect - the songs all sounded great and, since they've all pretty much mastered their instruments (and their songs) in the last 20+ years, in some cases they sounded better than I expected.

Great Great Great band! nothing but great stuff.

"Doolittle" is more or less their best album. Not one bad song out of the lot of them. Personal favorite has to be Hey and Tame.

Sliver or Silver

thats the one bad song.

I completely disagree.

has anyone here heard teenager of the year>? I like it as much as doolittle, its deffinetly worth checking out althought it takes a few listens to filter out the best songs as its a double album

Um..I wouldn't compare it to Doolittle but, yeah, I like it. I also really like Frank Black's 1st solo album (which sounds a lot more like the Pixies).

The Pixies are definitely better than Black's solo stuff or The Breeders, imo. Though Pod and Teenager of the Year are still two fantastic albums. Too much filler on Teenager of the Year, that was never a problem with the Pixies.

yeah I agree but I would say half of it was hits

I like them too!!

Fav songs are The Holiday Song, Velouria and Monkey Gone To Heaven :hphones:

I had a chance to see them twice in DC, I kinda regret not getting tickets now.

I have "Surfer Rosa" and "Come on Pilgrim", but I usually end up just listening to "Where Is My Mind" and putting something else on.

Just outta curiousity, if you're near DC have you ever been to DAR Constitution Hall? I have absolutely no idea what it's like I've never seen anyone there.

No man, this is the first time I've heard of that venue.

free doolittle ep!
Pitchfork: Pixies Release Free Live Doolittle EP

Lol, Peter Murphy in the next twilight movie.

The Pixies are the greatest band ever!!!!

This is my first post on this site, and what better way to do it than by praising the Pixies, right?

ROYTE!

:tramp:

What does that mean?

...right.

Funny this thread should come up. Listened to Doolittle for the first time in ages last night and it's still a blast. I've fell in love with 'Monkeys Gone To Heaven' all over again, and I'm stunned by it, as I'm convinced that it's Frank Blacks warning of the disaster that can be brought on by our damage to the environment. It's nice to view a song I thought I new inside out in a new light.
I was also surprised by 'Dead', which the White Stripes seem to have used as the foundation of their entire career.
Also, I listened to 'Silver' and actually enjoyed it for the first time.

The pixies were the first band to really open me up to non mainstream music. Although I am still surprised that they did not become more popular. I agree with the statement made about them still sounding exciting, sometimes I won't listen to them for awhile and then ill put on surfer rosa or doolittle and feel yhe excitement of when I first got into them way back in high school

It's been a while since i've seen any Pixies discussion here. I don't listen to them as frequently as i used to, but when i do i tend to binge on them. They certainly did open up a huge door for me a few years ago and got me into a lot of 80's and 90's American indie rock, i have them to thank for that.

my favourite pixies song is Nimrod

It must've been earlier than that. They broke up in 1993.

Nice. I had the chance to see them in 2004 when they played a big outdoor gig with the Red Hot Chili Peppers but i couldn't get off work to go :( a load of my friends went and they said the Pixies blew them off the stage.

Does anyone here still believe there'll ever be a fifth Pixies album?