does ciggs and alcohol sound like the Beatles?
Does live forever sound like the Beatles.
Who is now reading and regurgitating what they read???
They like the Beatles but they are nothing like the Beatles in sound.
ask Jalen and he will tell you better then me.
Beatles nothing like Oasis.

Every song in the history of rock?
I think not.
Methinks you are been silly now and if there is one thing I don't like in this forum it is people who make sweeping statements that sound arrogant and do not hold up with any look at the facts!
he he.

A little exaggeration, but I think my point is clear...the "innovative" themes that you ascribe to Oasis are the themes that have characterized rock music since nearly its inception.

And, amusingly, those same themes were what Madchester were all about. Gee, wonder where Oasis got it? Noel Gallagher has said as much. "No Stone Roses, no Oasis.'

You do make a good point but making **** hot records when every other band is trying to do the same and actually suceeding makes you great.
it is like of all the boxers ali is best but they all are trying to be best by hitting each other.
That just makes them even better for actually doing it.
My view is some make it happen and others follow.
The pistols made us look up, Nivarna made us look up, elvis and berry etc.
They create a genre.
Then others follow.
that is a sign of genius to take something everyone is trying to do and make it great and new again.
you made my point well so thanks.

Which Oasis didn't do (nothing they did was "great and new again"), so I'm glad we all agree that they weren't genius. :)

come off your high horse man.
they did inspire the verve and other bands and their first two albums were great like live forever.
how many young people were at that time just tired of pruning their roses?
do you get it?
tired of pruning their roses?
I just came up with that as I wrote.
how come they sold out knebworth and created britpop?

Dear Kettle,

You're black.

Sincerely,
The Pot

They and Blur popularized Britpop, certainly. But they weren't particularly innovative or all that great.

I think their first two albums are quite good, enjoyable to listen to. They are far, far, far from the best albums produced in that era.

Well done.

They didn't create Britpop. That's how come. Suede and Teenage Fanclub created Britpop, if anyone. You can include the Roses, if you count the Madchester scene. Blur and Oasis made it mainstream (despite being significantly worse bands).

so you do have some spunk in you young urban!
ahhhhhh haaaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaaa haaaaaa

teenage fanclub are okay but you will lose credibilty on this forum if you really think that about them.
were they manc bands?
Britpop was blur oasis.
Credibilty like mine comes from sustained beliefs and well constructed arguements that stay the same.
Not saying whatever seems right at each juncture.
Teenage fanclub are not without their charm.
But you could say Ride were part of it or loads of other bands around at the time even the manics.
but we all know the real fuel of britpop.
still you do make some good points.
I enjoy disecting your arguements alot.
But your views on oasis been nothing is very how can I say, here and now as they are still going.
In a few years you'll be loving them.
I love the roses the smiths and oasis and the mondays.
But influential on the manc scene of the early nineties I would say it was actually ryders mondays because they put manchester on the music map properly.
I would say influential to media is mondays.
Influential to music and other bands oasis.
keep up the debate and remember I am only joking man. But my points about bands I really believe.

I'll argue what I see. Suede and Teenage Fanclub were the first to start making that sort of music. (Again, unless you count Stone Roses...some consider them part of Britpop, some don't.)

No, but you used "created Britpop" as an argument for Oasis. They didn't create Britpop. Non-Manchester bands did.

In the mainstream. They weren't the originators or the best.

I'm saying what I see as right based on my perspective. What part of my perspective comes up depends on where the discussion goes. Nothing I believe has changed for the sake of this discussion.

You could include Ride, MBV, Lush, Secret Shine, etc, if you count shoegaze as part of Britpop. I don't, and I don't think most do. It was quite a different sound.

Teenage Fanclub didn't find a lot of fame and mainstream success, but they were one of the most respected UK bands among the British bands in that scene and they made a ton of great songs. More to the point, they and Suede were the ones to start the brand of guitar pop / power pop that was the foundation of Britpop in the '90s.

I didn't say they were nothing. They made some good pop. They just didn't innovate (no crime) and weren't among the best (in my opinion, and also no crime).

Unlikely. I liked them when they started and have liked their work less and less over the years. I thought their first two albums were great when they came out, now I barely listen to them. I don't think their music has lasting appeal.

I realize you're not being very serious. I am also keeping things light. None of this is annoying me. ;)

You have won this discussion my man!
I know you have.
Your points are right.
One thing I would say though is that the mondays were most influential to manchester with maybe the roses second.
My title was about influential from manchester. I reckon in hindsight even though the mondays were short lived like their shows they were the crest of that high scene. The roses not so much purely because they were not connected to wilsons club there.
The smiths get bussloads of americans who vist the working mans club from the pictures and they put mancs on the map but for me the mondays from 88 to 91 ish made madchester what it was.
But your points about britpop are right and I am wrong.
But don't you think that those earlier bands didn't really light the fuse much.
I think it was the BRITS where they really got going with that blur oasis thing and their two singles combined release crap.
But for me like I said I think the mondays encapsulate manchester's finest moment.
So I would say they were most influential been tied to wilsons club.

ADELE. Why don't you actually get out there and hear some new bands instead of rehashing arguments that are well past their sell by date? Just a thought....

name some and I'll go and see them.
I am recuperating at the moment you see.
I am back in training though.
I used to see bands all the time but I will get back into the scene soon.
name some bands and I will go see them.
i had a big deal problem with police and am laying low.
I am about to get out and about again because I won against the bastards. they were following me and tapping me.
to protect some bastard nonce bloke who kept grassing me and accusing me. others are taking care of him for me now once some time has elapsed and I am well out of the fray.
I am getting back out soon now back to London.

Twisted Wheel from manchester. Say no more:

MySpace.com - TWISTED WHEEL - oldham manchester, UK - www.myspace.com/thetwistedwheel

done, I will.
definately probably at the bush.
cheers for that.
This is good.

That's a killer list..but I'm nor sure how you can't pick Joy Division.

I mean look at the covers bands have done etc...they don't sound dated one bit. Still influence ton's of bands...I'm not sure any bad was ever more ahead of their time.

It's pretty easy not to when The Fall are from Manchester.

I really do have to give The Fall a listen, don't I?

http://www.musicbanter.com/editors-p...orld-fall.html

;)

Thanks, Live At The Witch Trials it is.

HEX ENDUCTION HOUR
THIS NATION'S SAVING GRACE
THE REAL NEW FALL LP.

Listen to the 3 of those.NOW.

Live At The Witch Trials first =)

The Smiths or Joy Division. Cant really decide.

I think i'd go for the Smiths between those two, although i ashamedly admit i only own Unknown Pleasures.

Rob Collins was one of the best Keyboardists of The 90's, and I may be in a small group of listeners, but I am one of those who rate their second album very well.

They may not be as "influential" in the way many define the word, but they were one of the very few surviving bands of the "Madchester" era who stuck to a good quality of music. They stood out.

Personally - Joy Division. Closer is my favorite album, although Unknown Pleasures is one of the finest Debut Albums ever.

Historically - The Fall. Although I'm only into some of their music, especially their Early-Mid 80's work, it's their Independent spirit that is the most influential about them.

Another band that almost can be called influential that should be mentioned for standing out at least were The Chameleons. Their moody Guitar-driven music was often imitated by those who hardly went near their level. Sadly, they faded way pretty fast, but Script of the Bridge was a fine album.

The Smiths for me, hands down.

I just read through this thread. I have a newfound respect for ADELE's legacy.
Also The Smiths.

The Smiths then Joy Division then The Buzz****s

Joy Division - and it's not even close.

Stone Roses, The Smiths

The best current band in Manchester is Stranger Son Of WB, although they have trouble getting arrested even over here. If you can find any of their stuff, 'Hot Banana Wave', 'Engine' and 'Snakes' are all superb. The middle track there is on their LP 'Einstein's Getaway' from last year. They've had a few line up changes last few years, which hasn't helped their cause too much.

Best ever has to be New Order or The Fall.

Who do they sound like? Details?

First time I saw them they were heavily indebted to The Fall. Guttural drum and bass heavy post-punk sound. The new line-up has more of a keyboard influence, shades of Magazine/Joy Divison. At times they remind me of Tar or any of those other Amphetamine Reptile type bands, noisy art-rock if you like.

Recommended if you like any of those.

done, thanks..Ill check them out.

The Smiths without a doubt.

The Stone Roses
Happy Mondays
The Smiths
Oasis
New Order
Joy Division
Elbow

As for most influential...hard to narrow it down to one. Probably The Smiths or Stone Roses since nearly every British alternative band since they were around has been influenced by at least one of them.

This.

Although the best has to be The Smiths. Johnny Marr is ridiculously good.

Buzz****s are really taking a bashing here it's a shame. They are defo better than oasis and probably better than the rest. As for best it has to go like this:
Joy Division
The Fall
The Smiths
Buzz****s
Stone Roses
New Order
Happy Mondays
Elbow

Johnny Marr alone would qualify The Smiths as the best (musically) IMO.

^ As a best list, this fails.
For influence, I'd say you've got the top 4 in the right order...more or less.
The exception would have to be a swap of places. Smiths for Buzzcocks.