Lizzie

does every thread have to turn into one huge argument?

jackhammer

No. Take a good look around. There are some great threads around esp. in General Music.

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sleepy jack

What? They were pretty accurate, you havn't listed when the cut off date for being a new band is. All the bands you have mentioned fit into your standards of "old" thus making them invalid for being discussed, you HAVE been treating it like british indie=mainstream radio etc. Your argument is weak and full of holes, don't be pissed because you're being called on it. Even if I was arguing for the sake of it it doesn't change the fact your argument is weak.

Sure thing: Amusement Parks on Fire, Jo Apps, The Strange Death of Liberal England, The Pirate Ship Quintet, Throw Stephanie in the Incinerator, Red Paper Dragon, Fall of Efrafa, Bat For Lashes, Aotea, Katie Melua.

I just didn't understand why you were bitching about how bad hearing this music was seeing as its way worse in other places. I'd rather hear the Libertines than Spears.

Let me get this straight, you're going to make general statements about an entire countries indie scene and insult it YET you don't see the point in listing the bands you're insulting?


Yet when decent ones are pointed out you bitch about them being the minority and you never mentioned you wanted decent ones till now? It's not just England where the crappy bands are held higher than the better ones, that's everywhere.

You go on and make ridiculous claims and stupid arguments someone is going to say something.

But the bands you're bitching about aren't new either. You're not very clear here, first you just say the british indie scene sucks so I list Patrick Wolf then you say he isn't new (which somehow means he isn't part of the british indie scene) I don't even know what you're arguing about it seems like pointless bitching to me.

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Urban Hat€monger ?

That's a pretty desperate list there's only really 2 acts there that are really what we are talking about here. I mean I could list a load of grime acts on independent labels & say 'isn't there loads of stuff around'

And Katie Melua ??????

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sleepy jack

Why don't you make a list of bands off the top of your head that have formed in the past two years from one specific country and then we'll examine it and base its quality off of how heard of it is.

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Rainard Jalen

Thank you, Ethan! Well done! You've finally contributed something useful to the discussion, rather than touting the same points over and over again, that I just respond to in full, over and over again, only for you to not quite read a word or two and, just to be difficult, reiterate your original points once again. I'm not interested in your "I know you said it but what did I" games. If you're really up for discussing the general point properly, then let's do it in PM where this whole adrenaline thing of needing to appear smart and right (to some larger audience that, surprise, don't actually care) is taken out of the picture.

Or else, we could start from scratch here and set out some definitions of new and old, indie and whatever else, and take it from there in a regular, civil discussion.

sleepy jack

I'd actually like to apologize, when I go through **** in my life I take it out on MB. Sorry, Sound Devastation is pushing out a bunch of great stuff I only listed some of it by the way.

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Rainard Jalen

Alright, no worries man.

I think it would be of use at this juncture to add a little context to the discussion.

My main disappointment with the British indie scene stems from the following fact: my home, the United Kingdom, is a nation of approximately 61 million people. The United States by contrast has a population roughly 5 times larger. Both countries have massive music scenes. The United Kingdom has a well-renowned fantastic history of pop music. One might expect from the facts of population that the British scene would have an output of, perhaps, 5 times less great independent bands than the USA. This is what I'd hope for. Such expectations, unfortunately, do not seem to pan out.

The States right now has an aboslutely remarkable indie music scene. There are so many excellent, exciting, diverse acts currently active that it goes without mentioning. Britain, at least by contrast, is dry. The ratio of good American bands to good English ones is, I feel, entirely disproportionate. And this is what I find myself so very disappointed with.

I think it is remarkable, and tremendously sad, that a country like Sweden, with a population around 7 times smaller than the UK, probably has a more exciting current/active music scene than us.

My feeling is that whatever bands may be brought into the framework of this discussion, it does little ultimately to disguise the fact that our output is so much smaller than what it really should be. My sentiment stems from these sorts of things, and not any desire to diss or bitch about one thing or another.

sleepy jack

Well I don't think it's really fair to compare anywhere to the US scene wise, like you said it's five times larger. More cities with different cultures and different scenes. I mean you have Seattle, Olympia, Bellingham and those are just in Washington. Then there's Portland and California and those are all just on the west coast. They have thriving music scenes with plenty of bands being that have made it huge in the past few years: Death Cab For Cutie, The Shins, Modest Mouse, Rilo Kiley, The Decemberists and so on. All big indie names, then you have tons of smaller bands who will no doubt be big in the future, particularly in Seattle. Sub Pop will grab them up. Like I said, that's just the west coast in the midwest you had that whole Kinsella Cap'n Jazz inspired scene and more recently Team-Love, Saddle Creek and so on with Bright Eyes, Cursive, Tilly and the Wall, The Faint, Azure Ray, etc then in the south the elephant six collective which I don't think I need to get into (thank you of Montreal) and Texas with Okkervil River, Explosions in the Sky, Spoon and so on. nd after that you still have the east coast and new york. That was alot of rambling, the point I'm trying to make I guess is the US is huge and there's no way you could only have one scene there so there's several though they all seem to focus around certain cities. Most Washington bands flock to Seattle (unless you're a punk band then its Olympia), in the south you either go to Athens or Atlanta and so on. I guess it helps that indie is really becoming hip in the US, with many thanks to the internet I imagine.

I don't think Britain is worse off than some countries music wise right now, I can't really think of many Australian acts right now who are that great, Architecture in Helsinki is really the only one that comes to mind. I just think the problem is crap like the Pigeon Detectives and The Kooks is being hyped over stuff like 65daysofstatic but that's the way the radio's always been, at least here. I guess when you had bands like The Smiths and Joy Division in the 80s and Blur and Oasis in the 90s a bunch of rubbish like Babyshambles would be disappointing.

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Urban Hat€monger ?

Well for me it's not so much that, it's this

Even with the likes of Blur , Oasis , Pulp & Suede being accepted in the mainstream there was still like a second tier of good bands just under them.
I'm not talking about bands like Echobelly , Sleeper or the Stereophonics who all had big hits during that time I mean bands like The Auteurs , Super Furry Animals , Telstar Ponies , Gorky's Zygotic Mynci, Strangelove , Flying Saucer Attack , Ultrasound & Delicatessen and I guess to some extent back then Belle & Sebastian & Mogwai. Good indie bands who although had nothing to do with the whole britpop thing benefited from the increased exposure. I think thats whats really missing now.

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