Sneer

They're a good band, but come on now...

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Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

Nope, I mean it.

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Sneer

OK, out of curiosity, why do they shit all over The VU and Bowie in your opinion? Genuinely interested.

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Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

Cover significantly more ground then Velvet Underground (which lost steam fairly early on.), and tend to be consistently good unlike Bowie.

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Sneer

Bowie's had a much more prolific recording career, and the good far outweighs the bad. RK's back catalogue isn't faultless, and I haven't even heard all of it. As for The VU, I take it you're not a fan of the S/T or Loaded? Though nowhere near as experimental a earlier releases, both showcase musical diversity and a willingness to progress. Not only that, they both easily trump everything I've heard from the Red Krayola.

As I said, I've got lots of time for RK, I just think saying they shit all over Bowie and The VU is ridiculous. But hey, opinion is opinion.

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Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

Well, 99% of this is opinion. The only thing that isn't is the assumption David Bowie has a more prolific career. Red Krayola started in 1966, and produced their last album in 2010. David Bowie started his career in 1968 and last album was produced in 2003.

As for Velvet Underground, even their early albums don't really live up to expectations, in my opinion. They are good, not astounding.

Red Krayola are much more diverse, and consistent in quality than both. There are things in 'art rock', and 'art music' that I'd consider better than Red Krayola. I just feel that they overshadow many of the acts that are popularly advertised to tipify the genre.

I exaggerate, maybe, but I think my point still stands.

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TockTockTock

Look, I definitely agree that Red Krayola is a better band than The Velvet Underground (even though anyone who knows me knows I'm an obsessive fan of VU), but I wouldn't go so far as to say that they kick the **** out of them.

Even though this entire argument is incredibly subjective, I'm going to go ahead and jump in anyways (for the sake of a musical discussion)... The Velvet Underground's music IS astounding. Their use of controversial subject matters in their lyrics was unheard of at the time... with topics such as: dealing and injecting heroin ("I'm Waiting for the Man" and "Heroin"), sadomasochism ("Venus in Furs"), prostitution ("There She Goes Again"), methamphetamine use ("White Light/White Heat"), and transvestism ("Lady Godiva's Operation"). Hell... "Sister Ray" is about a bunch of drag queens shooting themselves up with heroin and having a massive orgy with a bunch of sailors (one of which ends up getting shot, and nobody does anything about it). Lyrics aside, The Velvet Underground were also among the first to experiment with rock music. Their first three albums were vital in the creation of: art rock/experimental rock, noise rock ("Sister Ray," "Run Run Run," "I Heard Her Call My Name," and "European Son") avant-folk ("The Black Angel's Death Song"), ambient/drone ("Venus in Furs," "Loop," and "Heroin"), dream pop ("Sunday Morning"), punk rock ("Sister Ray"), and alternative rock ("Heroin," "Here She Comes Now," and most of the songs on their third album). All in all, VU's first two albums can trump anything done by The Red Krayola, but RK's overall discography trumps VU's in terms of eclecticism, size, and even innovation (it adds up). Although, RK's first two albums are pretty damn impressive (especially their second which is fairly close to ranking with VU's debut... in my opinion). The fact Thompson is still releasing unique albums to this day is a huge triumph on its own.

I will admit, though, that Loaded can be extremely boring at times... I mean... "Lonesome Cowboy Bill" has to be one of the worst pop/rock songs I have ever heard (from the 70s), and "Who Loves the Sun" sounds like something The Beatles could have written in about fifteen minutes...

When it comes to comparing the two bands, however, I would much rather see them as equals. I have never been a huge advocate on the concept of superiority, but if one is really "better" than another... then it's just by a hair. They were both important in the creation of experimental rock, art rock, indie/alternative rock, punk rock, and noise rock as well as other genres on their own... with RK being an influence on post-punk, industrial music, and noise... It just depends on what an individual's definition of a "superior" band is...

Here are a few of my favorite songs by RK:



^ It almost sounds like a post-punk song...

Sneer

You're bang on, it is all about opinion, which is why it'd be somewhat inane to continue this.

The one thing I will add though is that, although RK's music career has spanned the 60s through to the 00s, they've had a couple of extended periods of inactivity, one lasting a decade, whilst they also went eight years without an album in the early to mid 70s. Moot point, perhaps, but I felt impelled to make it.

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