When you do take lo-fi to the extreme where the feedback and hissing become prominent elements of the music, that makes it indistinguishable from noise pop. You seem to have some sort of strange definition of noise rock which requires "atonal noise," which all noise is, even TNV's amp feedback, and free song structures, which I can assure you MBV does not have, and something that is certainly not present in most noise pop, which by definition mostly sticks to pop song structures.

This is not a recent development either, there are lots of bands that have taken lo-fi to an extreme who are considered noise rock. Take Electric Eels, Trumans Water, Velvet Underground, Destroy all Monsters, etc.

A few noise artists:
Merzbow
Masonna
Macronympha

A few noise-rock bands:
Boredoms
Big Black
Swans

A few noise-pop bands:
The Jesus and Mary Chain
Mercury Rev
Pale Saints

I don't feel it's any more a "prominent element" of the music itself whether it's extremely lo-fi or if it's slightly lo-fi. The noise would need to feature almost as if an instrument in its own right, and not just some byproduct of the recording process such that it merely sounds like a badly recorded pop song.

That was, experimentation with atonal noise. I don't see that merely having a high degree of "lo-fi-ness" constitutes experimentation with atonal noise, certainly not at this stage in rock history.

When I say free song structure I include an anti-structure approach within that. MBV do not have it? I apologize if that is the case - it has been a while since listening to Loveless but I seem to distinctly recall that several tracks are clearly on the anti-structure side of things, as in one passage pretty much repeats over and over again for 5 minutes and that's it. I may be wrong, but that's how I remember said album.

I don't see that noise pop sticks mostly to pop song structures at all - much prototypical noise pop have single recurrent passages throughout their tracks. The "pop" part is attributed to the use of melodious vocals, type of beat, and certain other instrumental elements typically involved.

Truman Water and so forth got their noise rock credentials for being other than merely lo-fi. It is in reference to those parts of their music that do focus on free improvisation and so forth. Plus they definitely used noise like an instrument, as stipulated above. And not just simply a fuzzy recording quality.

Out of interest have you listened to TNV? If so, what's your view of them?

I disagree with this, and that to me is exactly where the appeal
of bands like TNV comes in, in that they break down the distinction
between what a piece is "supposed to sound like" and what it ultimately
does sound like due to recording limitations. Ultimately, it isn't "supposed"
to sound clean even though it is a melodic pop song- it's supposed to
sound dirty, jagged, and discordant. The conflict between those elements
and the melodious pop tendencies is what makes it interesting.

Well don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's immensely
progressive or revolutionary, but I don't think noise has to be.
It just has to rely, on some level, on noise to make its impact.

I have, and I think they're pretty good, though probably
not my favorite band from the "Ohio scene," and Ohio
has always put out incredible garage rock.

once again, rainard epic fails due to a lack of basic comprehension


remind me when i claimed these were all straight noise bands? these are recommendations you twit, bands that i think a noise fan might enjoy, seeing as they all contain elements and conventions of noise. post-punk has noise elements, no wave has noise elements, noisecore has noise elements, etc.


you should really read before you reply, rainard.

Dunno about that.

They just sound like your typical white boy indie guitar band , only recorded very very badly to me.

Still waiting to see if you can actually direct a post towards me without having to resort to insults... Then we can discuss.

Exactly. That sums up the whole point. Bad recording =/= a noise hybrid genre.

i won't stop resorting to insults until you prove you have an iota of sense and/or intelligence in you

go ahead and keep dodging questions, though, by all means

Don't get me wrong I don't dislike them.
There's just something about the whole bad production thing that bothers me. It just seems a bit fake to me , like they're desperate for a gimmick. I don't see how it adds to the music in any way.

I don't know if you looked at the title of this thread.
But I can refresh your memory--
it's called "NOISE".
not "kinda noise".
or "sorta noise".