Uh, you do know that that's basically what all Noise Pop bands are?

Of course Times New Viking Noise aren't Noise in the traditional Merzbow/Massona/whatever sense, but they definitely fall under the Noise umbrella.

Besides, there are a lot of bands mentioned in this thread that are a lot further from Noise than TNV.

No - but that's what a lot of people seem to refer to as "noise pop", which I think is a mislabeling if ever there was one. Just because something is comically fuzzy does not in my mind prove a sufficient condition for associating it with noise music.

Same answer - I just do not see that most fans of real noise music would particularly want poor standard indie trash like TNV under the umbrella, so to speak.

I agree, though when reading that post in particular TNV stood out like a sore thumb as I'd been listening to them quite extensively earlier on in the year and saw it for, imo, what it really was.

But I accept that these sorts of classifications are somewhat relative and there's room for debate - I appreciate the discussion, and not the idiotic insults of a certain other individual.

Except the difference between Japanese harsh noise and say, the noise rock coming out of Boston right now (Neptune, Magic People, etc.) that the definition of what "real" Noise is changes depending on who you ask. Noise (and all its sub-genres), Noise Rock, and Noise Pop are all so completely different at this point that it's almost impossible to define what's "real" Noise and what isn't.

That is probably true - these things are very relative to who you might ask or encounter. Nevertheless, I'd like to think that "noise pop/noise rock" is something more meaningful than writing a few very mediocre but always formulaic pop tracks and then just fucking up the settings on your mixer. I'd like to think an entirely separate genre term would exist in order to say a little bit more about stylistic considerations and defining characteristics than that. But then, I may be in the minority.

times new viking are a lo-fi-garage-noise-rock band

Hate to jump on the bandwagon, but these are not noise.
!Forward, Russia! is definitely post punk revival.
Q & Not U- indie dance punk
These Arms Are Snake- probably post-hardcore

If you want some good noise (and i mean noise, noise rock, not noise pop, etc.),
check out prurient (part of the providence noise scene, which is worth a look into).
also, i like wake up snake, a short-lived charleston band that fell somewhere between post-hardcore and noise

Least somebody else sees what I'm talking about here. Loz, it's as bad as some of those generic metal bands that add operatic vocals and then all of a sudden are considered neo-classical.

If a normal verse-chorus-verse pop song + a bit of fuzz = noise music, then as of 2008 we're in sad sad territory.

except for that's pretty much how jamc created noise pop in the 80's... love it or leave it buddy.

i think people misuse the genre "noise" far too often.
real "noise" has little, if no, structure, lots of feedback and basically a lot of experimentation, be it circuit bending, static, etc.

sorry if i'm rambling, but it's a sore spot with me.
like lightning bolt, japanther, hella and DFA79 are NOT noise.
....okay, i'm done

Well...the thread IS entitled noise, so I think it's perfectly reasonable to go on with this line of discussion.

Fuzzy vocals, humming amplifiers, tinny drum sounds, hissing, distortion, aliasing, and a general cheap, thin, narrow frequency response.

What did I just describe? If you answered "noise music", our survey says: eh eh! If you answered lo-fi, DING! Right answer. But what is lo-fi? In many ways it's not really a genre of music, but a recording aesthetic - at least I'd argue so, anyway. This is because you could add a lo-fi effect to any sort of music, be it hiphop (it often was), punk, indie rock, electronia or anything else. But more importantly, even in the indie/alternative sense of the word, you can find two bands who essentially sound very similar in their songwriting, with the only difference being that one records lo-fi, the other does not.

Calling TNV "noise" is a suggestion that noise and lo-fi are synonymous and interchangable. If a straight up lo-fi indie pop band like the aforementioned is "noise", then all lo-fi bands might as well be similarly labeled "noise". It can't be had one way and not the other. It's either all in, or not at all.

Bands like Sonic Youth and My Bloody Valentine are closer to the notion of "noise rock" owing to their experimentation with atonal noise and, essentially, free song structures. But other bands of late have only been associated with noise due to nothing more than merely taking the lo-fi sound to the extreme, or often, just being lo-fi period. And, at least for me, that does not warrant the classification. LOZ, if Slanted & Enchanted were to come out now in 2008, these same people would probably lump it in with noise rock.