I disagree with your opinion of Converge; At the Gates were the pioneers of metalcore.

'Scene grind' isn't even a genre--as I'm sure you know; the term you're looking for is tech grind. I assume you're talking about bands like The Great Redneck Hope, Cloacal Kiss, Destroyer Destroyer, Ed Gein, MAHCIU, Robinson... hm, let's see... The Sawtooth Grin, See You Next Tuesday, Stand Before the Firing Squad, Vessels Cast from Crippled Hands, et al.

Yes, I'm a namedropping whore; yes, I listen to these bands. No, I am not scene.

And a band doesn't need to be technical to be considered tech grind.

I disagree with that.

Me neither, but I'm pretty sure the majority are.

Most of the time, they just have to have fans that have part time jobs as ninjas.



I've argued this a lot with RAR, but scene kids, the majority of those bands fans, are bastardizing little shits, and according to Ian, happen to be extremely concentrated in his area.
I dislike scene kids just as much as him (to my knowledge), however, I am willing to listen to their music still (even if they cater to the little bitches sometimes).

They definitely are swarming to this genre. Furthermore, they feel it's necessary to tag everything from Despised Icon to Killwhitneydead as grindcore, thinking it gives them 'br00tal' scene cred. Ninety-percent of them have never heard of Napalm Death, or Discordance Axis; they are merely jumping on a bandwagon.
Trust me, you can't really dance to tech grind. I went to a See You Next Tuesday show and the kids didn't know what to do. When they finally played Clawhammer, no one recognized the breakdown when it came because they're too used to generic Bury Your Dead breakdowns.

Who would you say pioneered metalcore?

Ummmm....no. At The Gates were always and will always be a Melodic Death Metal band. The "Gothenburg" sound they had has been bastardized by today's "metalcore" acts.

And "tech grind". Call it what you will, my point still stands, it's kids ripping off the bands that ripped off the founders of the style. Real grind = Carcass, Nasum, Brutal Truth, Pig Destroyer, Birdflesh.

I call it scene grind because of the people involved in it. It's not heavy or "brutal", it's weak breakdowns and a lack of playing ability covered up by the use of pitchshifters or drum machines. And kids go bat**** crazy for it and I really think a lot of it has to do with "rebellion". All adolescents go through it, when I was first getting into real death metal around 9th grade, I'd blast it from my room to annoy my mom and dad, I've since grown out of that but half the guys in these bands are over 20.

It's not good, not unique, and simply caters to chick pants wearing homo's.

I never even understood the term "metalcore" it just sounds like metal to me. I don't see any infulence of Black Flag, Minor Threat, Articles of Faith etc in bands like Converge.

Because there isn't much. It's the mentality/attitude/lyrical content more than anything.

Converge and Hatebreed.

At The Gates are strictly Melodeath, a lot of their lyrics focus on death and hate, their riffs are pretty melodic and technical, and there's a lot of double basedrumming, generally just a lot of things that were innovative (at the time) for death metal acts.
Converge and Hatebreed's lyrics (especially Hatebreed's) focus mainly on oppression and rebellion, vocals are more shouted and screamed as in a more punk style, and they bands have a much thrashier/hardcore sound.

Converge vocals are nothing like hardcore punk vocals, the shouting comparison can be just as easily made with metal.

The Gothenburg sound is precisely what grew into metalcore. Hatebreed are the pioneers of tough guy; they had nothing to do with the rise of metalcore (Snickers).

Cmon, tech grind breakdowns aren't weak. Listen to TGRH's 'They Say The People Elect the Government They Deserve, But I Don't Remember Knife-Raping Any Retarded Nuns.' and Vessels Cast from Crippled Hand's 'Ladies Drink Free' for two grand examples.

I don't wear chick pants, nor do I blast any music from my room, with the exception of Merzbow and Animal Collective. How would you classify me, and my enjoyment of tech grind?

:) merzbow