The Hate List

Mucha na Dziko · 12-14-2021, 02:40 PM

(Not with the second part though – ever heard of the Ugly Duckling?)

**Frownland** · 12-14-2021, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubber soul

if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

...we should not form an opinion about whether or not it's a duck until a court does DNA testing on the animal, develops an intensive family tree showing duck lineage, and has a jury certify it as a duck.

Mucha na Dziko · 12-14-2021, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

...we should not form an opinion about whether or not it's a duck until a court does DNA testing on the animal, develops an intensive family tree showing duck lineage, and has a jury certify it as a duck.

If it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck we shouldn't assume it is a duck, because it might not look like a duck

**Frownland** · 12-14-2021, 02:47 PM

Even if it looks like a duck, too, because it might not actually look like a duck when it looks like a duck. Actually it's probably better to not think about ducks at all or else you might violate Rationality.

Mucha na Dziko · 12-14-2021, 02:52 PM

Eh, that's exactly why I didn't want to have this conversation further

**Frownland** · 12-14-2021, 02:54 PM

That sentiment lacks strong evidence, I'm not buying it.

Norg · 12-14-2021, 06:08 PM

why did i see "behemoth" like 3 times ..????

not only are they pretty heavy ...there not even or trying to be the heaviest band around nor are they

there more focused on doing the peeks n valleys making catchy EPIC moments

Norg · 12-14-2021, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Volbeat are like if Disturbed tried to be a power metal band right?

idk what volbeat is trying to be they try to be a mixture of stuff but i really think they straight copy riffs from other bands because everything they do sounds exactly like bands from just 20 years ago

there boring generic and just trash live

Trollheart · 12-14-2021, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mucha na Dziko

I'm just rational

Not riding on the "not guilty" or "guilty" idea, because there is just too much contradictory data.

OJ Simpson was acquitted at first, but then found guilty. It's right there in the first paragraph on his Wikipedia page.

So asking for an explanation is being negative?

Saying "I won't listen to Xs music because we all know what a bastard he is" is fine, but asking "why is he a bastard?" is hate?
Come on...

Really, it works exactly the other way around.
I thought that rich/celebrty people can get past the juridicial system when I was like 12.
It might work that wa if you're like Elon Musk of=r she other banking clan type person, but it doesn't when you work in culture.

If you're a well-known musician selling millions of albums, you're more likely to be found guilty when charged, because the "society" makes an "example" out of you.

You can get out on bail, sure.
You can pay or something for your jail time, sure.
But you can't dictate whether you're found guilty or not.

Anyway, as long as someone isn't found guilty on strong evidence, they shouldn't be considered "guilty".
Otherwise we just go back to out caveman days when if someone said "he beat/raped me" we just go out and torch that person out to hell.

You really trust your judicial system do you? And OJ was acquitted but then taken to court on separate civil charges, where he could only be forced to pay damages, not be put in jail. As Judge Judy says, the burden of proof is much lower in a civil case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubber soul

So, OJ was found innocent because he didn't have to pay for the best legal defense in town (and he was found liable, not guilty, by a civil jury)?

Look, money has corrupted all sides when it comes to Michael Jackson. Jackson could also hire the best legal defense and the main reason he was acquitted in his trial was because the jury accurately saw it as a money grab by the kids' mother. If you want proof in the pudding, (and yes, Leaving Neverland is certainly one-sided), listen to the now men who told their stories. Don't forget, in 1994, they were just impressionable boys who may have feared Michael Jackson (don't forget how much power he had in those days).

I won't go as far as I hope he rots in Hell because, as you noted, he never really had a life of his own. It was like he was the boy King but with all the dysfunction around him. But where is the justice (forget monetary) for the boys he may have victimized?

Sorry did I say rot in hell? Sorry, sorry, my bad.

I meant to say burn in hell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mucha na Dziko

My point exactly RB is that he "might have"

I just can't stand the kind of thinking that allows us to say "I hope rots in hell" when things aren't clear and obvious

Like I say, I meant to say burn in hell. Sorry for the confusion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mucha na Dziko

Saying "that dude is a rapist" is fine if you live in a society of a hundred people, or a thousand. It doesn't when you have to put up with 300M of other citizens who you know **** about.

Also: it's not "my standards", it's the standards that the society had put on us, so that we can all live in a sort-of-harmony

Maybe so, but that's the price you've got to pay in order to live in a society

Why is it fine?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plankton

If you wanna make the world a better place, take a look at yourself and then make a change.

If only he had taken his own advice...

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubber soul

Claims of pedophilia are not proven

But, as Dan Rather says, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

And you're Dick Cheney, shoot it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mucha na Dziko

(Not with the second part though – ever heard of the Ugly Duckling?)

DNA evidence has confirmed the avian in question was in fact a young swan, not a duckling. His dastardly plan was blown when he grew to maturity and the true depth of his duplicity was revealed. HCA could not be contacted for comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

...we should not form an opinion about whether or not it's a duck until a court does DNA testing on the animal, develops an intensive family tree showing duck lineage, and has a jury certify it as a duck.

Then we shoot it

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mucha na Dziko

If it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck we shouldn't assume it is a duck, because it might not look like a duck

That's ducking ridiculous.

Guybrush · 12-15-2021, 05:59 AM

It is a little difficult to prove a rape that happened a long time ago. I believe most rape victims don't have the luxury of concrete proof against their abusers. We shouldn't disbelieve them on principle.

If anyone had the means to get out of a pedo rape charge, it was MJ. His money, his eccentricities, it all played to his advantage. The way he groomed these families, giving their kids a dream life, supporting them financially. At the same time, he was buying their loyalty. Not necessarily in an obvious way, but he became a hero to them. They didn't want to believe someone so nice could do such a thing. The boys say, in Leaving Neverland, that they were in love with MJ. He told them to keep quiet about certain things and they didn't want anything bad to happen to him, them or their relationship. They were kids and blind to the problematic nature of it. This is what grooming is, it's a deep manipulation and hold over another person's perception of reality. It's similar to what cult leaders can do to followers. It can take years to mentally recover and some never do. MJ was actually holding their whole lives hostage, even if they were too infatuated at that time to see the dark side of that. When these court cases went on, they were basically children and in that state of mind.

After becoming grownups and thinking on it all for many years, these two guys come to the realization that they were abused. This really isn't that uncommon in cases where children have been abused. One might even go so far as to say that if it hadn't already happened, one might suspect that it WOULD happen eventually, if MJ was indeed a rapist. Nothing about it seems particularly out of the ordinary. I still half expect more people to come forward as MJ's grooming wanes - if they have the balls to. Because it takes guts to come forward with something like that. You will be hated by potentially millions of people. Your life from that point onwards will likely revolve around this. I bet these guys who did it have received a fair amount of death threats from enraged fans. So to think these two guys would basically ruin the legacy of a beloved and innocent friend/icon like that for a money grab they probably don't need.. Well, that seems more unlikely to me. There are easier ways to make a buck, like ways that have less of a chance of ruining your life.

Also as I mentioned, they are corroborated by MJ's maid who does tell of cummy underwear, stains and vaseline left around the property. No kidding.

It's crazy how people can be blind to what's in front of them if they just don't want to see it. Kinda like holocaust deniers, pizzagate, Heaven's Gate or Jonestown.

Mucha, is it proven? Of course not. Should you believe it? Yeah.

12-14-2021, 02:47 PM	#94 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Even if it looks like a duck, too, because it might not actually look like a duck when it looks like a duck. Actually it's probably better to not think about ducks at all or else you might violate Rationality. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

12-14-2021, 02:54 PM	#96 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	That sentiment lacks strong evidence, I'm not buying it. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

12-15-2021, 05:59 AM	#100 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	It is a little difficult to prove a rape that happened a long time ago. I believe most rape victims don't have the luxury of concrete proof against their abusers. We shouldn't disbelieve them on principle. If anyone had the means to get out of a pedo rape charge, it was MJ. His money, his eccentricities, it all played to his advantage. The way he groomed these families, giving their kids a dream life, supporting them financially. At the same time, he was buying their loyalty. Not necessarily in an obvious way, but he became a hero to them. They didn't want to believe someone so nice could do such a thing. The boys say, in Leaving Neverland, that they were in love with MJ. He told them to keep quiet about certain things and they didn't want anything bad to happen to him, them or their relationship. They were kids and blind to the problematic nature of it. This is what grooming is, it's a deep manipulation and hold over another person's perception of reality. It's similar to what cult leaders can do to followers. It can take years to mentally recover and some never do. MJ was actually holding their whole lives hostage, even if they were too infatuated at that time to see the dark side of that. When these court cases went on, they were basically children and in that state of mind. After becoming grownups and thinking on it all for many years, these two guys come to the realization that they were abused. This really isn't that uncommon in cases where children have been abused. One might even go so far as to say that if it hadn't already happened, one might suspect that it WOULD happen eventually, if MJ was indeed a rapist. Nothing about it seems particularly out of the ordinary. I still half expect more people to come forward as MJ's grooming wanes - if they have the balls to. Because it takes guts to come forward with something like that. You will be hated by potentially millions of people. Your life from that point onwards will likely revolve around this. I bet these guys who did it have received a fair amount of death threats from enraged fans. So to think these two guys would basically ruin the legacy of a beloved and innocent friend/icon like that for a money grab they probably don't need.. Well, that seems more unlikely to me. There are easier ways to make a buck, like ways that have less of a chance of ruining your life. Also as I mentioned, they are corroborated by MJ's maid who does tell of cummy underwear, stains and vaseline left around the property. No kidding. It's crazy how people can be blind to what's in front of them if they just don't want to see it. Kinda like holocaust deniers, pizzagate, Heaven's Gate or Jonestown. Mucha, is it proven? Of course not. Should you believe it? Yeah. __________________ Something Completely Different Last edited by Guybrush; 12-15-2021 at 06:36 AM.

12-14-2021, 06:08 PM	#97 (permalink)
Norg Music Addict Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,358	why did i see "behemoth" like 3 times ..???? not only are they pretty heavy ...there not even or trying to be the heaviest band around nor are they there more focused on doing the peeks n valleys making catchy EPIC moments