:laughing:

Disintegration is goth girl prom night panties dropping magic but Seventeen Seconds is the spin here. You guys are trying to get Big3 to like The Cure, remember?

Also...to answer the OP...the 80's did something that not many decades have been able to do and that was to get Iggy Pop to wear a shirt tucked into f*cking denim.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....4L._SX355_.jpg

Or just wear a shirt.

I told you guys it was corporate.

I think it was a mix of all three of those factors I have quoted in bold.I would add Yes and Genesis to that list.

MTV - because it suddenly became a requirement to look youthful and attractive in order to get the MTV watchers interested.

Technology and trend chasing - because so many artists got seduced by the possibilities of what you could do with computers and synthesisers. What they did not realise was that just because you CAN do something does not mean you SHOULD. Adoption of new technology is not a bad thing in itself, but it won't make something sound great that was not a great tune to begin with. Of course I am not referring to artists like Kraftwerk, where the technology was kind of the point.

Ok well this OP is pretty badly informed, at best.
Stevie Wonder I'm not too familiar with all of his work, but wasn't "I Just Called to Say I Love You" a number one hit in 1984? And then there's this:

(from Wiki: bolded text is mine)

The 1980s saw Wonder achieving his biggest hits and highest level of fame; he had increased album sales, charity participation, high-profile collaborations, political impact, and television appearances

Donna Summer, from Wiki again:

Summer received four nominations for the 7th Annual American Music Awards in January 1980, and took home awards for Female Pop/Rock and Female Soul/R&B Artist; and well as Pop/Rock single for "Bad Girls". Just over a week after the awards, Summer had her own nationally televised special, The Donna Summer Special,[18] which aired on ABC network

Joni Mitchell was a child of the sixties; nothing lasts forever. I can't speak of her as I don't know enough about her but I think perhaps she might have found it hard to fit into the new world of synths and DAT. She seemed to have reservations about Thomas Dolby producing one of her albums.

Earth Wind & Fire were very much a thing of the seventies soul explosion. When that began to wind down, good as they were, they probably found themselves in a similar situation to Joni. NLF again.

Elton John? Bowie? Queen? Aerosmith? Seriously? These artists had some of their biggest hits and best-selling albums in the 1980s, with Elton having major hits like "Blue Eyes", "I'm Still Standing" and "I Guess That's Why They Call it the Blues", plus that memorable duet with George Michael; Bowie kicked the eighties in the teeth with a "remember me?" including "Ashes to Ashes", "China Girl", "Modern Love" "Let's Dance" and "Blue Jean" to say nothing of teaming up with the next band on your list for "Under Pressure"; Queen had "Radio Ga-Ga", "Crazy Little Thing Called Love", "Another One Bites the Dust" and then there was this little aside, from Wiki again:

Queen chalked up a major international "first" by becoming the band to do for popular music in South America what The Beatles did for North America 17 years ago. Half a million Argentinians and Brazilians, starved of appearances of top British or American bands at their peak, gave Queen a heroic welcome which changed the course of pop history in this uncharted territory of the world rock map. In open-air concerts at temperatures of around 96 degrees, in stifling humidity, the ecstatic young people saw eight Queen concerts at giant stadia, while many more millions saw the shows on TV and heard the radio broadcasts live.

I could go on. Streisand is Streisand and at one point gouged witless fans of five hundred dollars per ticket, so I don't think she was worried. Many of the others - Diana Ross, Dylan, Aretha etc - were again of their time, though all of them had further hits.

In summation, I think you're being either very cruel or unfair to these artists or just trying to make a case by framing your evidence in a way that suits it. None of these artists "fell off badly in the 80s" as you like to say, not from what I've read and not from the evidence of sales and ticket numbers.

The point that Bowie had an artistic crisis during the 80s is the opposite of controversial unless you suddenly decide that commercial success is the only relevant factor. 1980's Scary Monsters, the last of his postpunk albums, is widely considered to be the last album of Bowie's golden era, maybe his last great album full stop until Blackstar.

Let's Dance is cute but very few would put it anywhere near his 1970s masterpieces. Absolute Beginners was a great one-off single but much of what he recorded during the 80s is painful to listen to today.

That's the problem. As soon as you start discussing the high points and low points of someone's career, half the people reading the thread assume that you are talking about commercial success, which can be measured objectively and therefore can't really be disputed - or at least any dispute can be resolved by simply looking at the data. The other half, which includes people like myself, interpret the discussion as being about quality of output, which is of course subjective.

I don't really agree with the premise aside from the fact that a lot of fans have issues with the stuff those artists put out in the 1980s. And the problem there, in my opinion, was simply that the new material was different and reflected popular trends. A lot of older fans don't want that. They want more of the same more or less.

Most of those artists were quite successful in the 80s, and personally I like the 80s music they put out. I tend to prefer when artists evolve rather than just giving me more of the same.

Yeah, the problem Bowie's and Stevie Wonder's fans had with their 80s work was that their heroes had "evolved". That their work was too new, too diverse and adventurous. Definitely not that it was 80s dross.

It's perfectly possible to admire someone for "evolving", and at the same time say you don't like the direction in which they have chosen to evolve. Steven Wilson is a case in point. I don't much like either of his two most recent albums, but I certainly respect his right to change direction, and I would not have been happy if his later albums have been carbon copies of his earlier ones.

While I'm capable of grasping the idea of an artist who goes in new directions I'm not necessarily thrilled with but respect them anyway, I am also very sympathetic to Bowie fans who failed to appreciate his evolution from someone who kept reinventing himself by releasing brilliant records every year to someone who's stuck in a rut, doing the same commercial gunk as everyone else on MTV.

Scary Monsters didn't sound like Low, which didn't sound like Station to Station, which didn't sound like Diamond Dogs, which didn't sound like Hunky Dory. The problem with his Phil Collins years is that it's the opposite of that.

I have a little more respect for Stevie Wonder in the eighties than I do Bowie for the most part. While it's hard to get into either during that period you can respect the direction Wonder was going in. It's just that I'm not much of an Adult Contemporary person.


As for Bowie, like Jadis suggested, he seemed to be going the more commercial route. It's why I didn't like Let's Dance for example. Thankfully, he got some of his mojo back in the nineties and ended up doing some brilliant stuff at the end.

The problem is that OP makes the accusation (that's not the right word but I'm having a brain freeze and can't think of what the proper word is) that these artists had "commercial or critical fall off". That could be read to mean they succeeded wildly in the charts but critics hated their work, ie they sold out, or that the critics loved them but they had no chart or album sales success. If you accuse (again not the right word I know) an artist of that, it's hard to defend it because you're basically damned if you do and damned if you don't. I personally rate LD but not NLMD and I like SMASC but think Tonight is garbage. Nevertheless, Bowie had hits from them, big ones. He was never going to be able to (nor I think did he want to) maintain the sort of style he did in the seventies. That was then, this was, um, then too. You know what I mean.

But if OP's premise had been that they were commercially successful but vapid in terms of creativity, or vice versa, that might be an easier argument to take up. As it is, it looks (may be reading it wrong) as if he's saying what I said above: they either had chart success but their work was awful, or their work was great but got no recognition. He seems to apply both, choose as per artist. Which doesn't give them much of a chance if so. I'm really not sure what he's saying, but in terms of commerciality and popularity, well, see my previous post.

Arguing about whether or not 60s artists successfully transitioned into the 80s makes me want to murder all the losers working at the record store in High Fidelity with a hammer.

Nah, ya can't touch this.

You already admitted you aren't familiar with his work so there was no point in you posting about it and acting like you know it all... Stevie's best selling album is Songs In The Key Of Life, it even received a Diamond, the majority of Stevie Wonder's top 10 hits were from the 60s - 70s, chart wise Stevie fell off in the 80s, Stevie's records from 1972-1976 were highly acclaimed and are even in the Grammy Hall Of Fame, Stevie earned a lot of awards throughout the 70s in many different categories, Now 80s Stevie Wonder, that was the exact opposite, maybe you should do some research about Stevie Wonder's career...

Donna Summer, best selling album is Bad Girls, 10 top ten hits throughout the 70s, gained her biggest awards throughout the 70s, I Feel Love has been considered a game changer, the first artist to have three consecutive double albums reach No. 1 on Billboard's album chart: Live and More, Bad Girls and On the Radio: Greatest Hits Volumes I & II, in fact you already proved my point when you listed some of her award success because they were a reference to her 70s material... Donna Summer in the 80s now? Exact opposite a massive decline.

Once again what's the point of you mentioning Joni Mitchell and you have admitted you don't know very much about her career? Your EWF comment makes no sense.

Elton John's most successful commercial period was from 1970-1976, his biggest hits, his top selling albums throughout his career such as GoodBye Yellow Brick Road, his albums between 1970-1975 were highly acclaimed and some are even in the Grammy hall of fame compare that to his 80s era... Big decline and even Elton referred the 70s as his golden years.

David Bowie, his classic period were the 70s, acclaimed works came from that decade, he had more top 10 hits in the 70s than he did throughout the 80s, Bowie even referred his 80s period as the "Phil Collins years, the majority of his best selling albums are from the 70s. His albums sales may have increased throughout the 80s but critically they weren't a success,

Aretha Franklin's peak was from 1967-1973 the majority of her top 10 hits were in the 60s - 73 her albums from the 1960s were even successful in the charts, her albums from 67-72 have been acclaimed as some of the greatest albums in popular music and she only had 2 hits in the 80s and one was due to George Michael who was at the peak of his career and who was a fresh young act. but in general if you compare her success from the 60s - the 80s then yes it is indeed a decline

Diana Ross... she fell off badly after Why Do Fools Fall In Love so what are you even talking about when you claimed she had further hits? 1980 was her peak but after 1981 she declined badly too, she hasn't had a hit since the early 1980s and the majority of her success came from the 60s - 81, after 1981 she didn't any success at all, no hits, failed albums critically and commercially

Aerosmith's decline has been acknowledged after their prolific run in the 70s, they didn't have any hits throughout the 80s (unless you count their RUN DMC collaboration a hit), their albums from 73-76 have been acclaimed as some of the greatest rock records in music.

Bob Dylan, 4 top 10 hits in the 60s, plenty of successful albums throughout the 60s and 70s, none in the 80s, I can continue if you want?



In summation, you clearly don't know very much about these artists I mentioned, you admitted that you don't know much about Stevie Wonder and Joni Mitchell and judging by your post about Donna Summer, Bob Dylan, Diana Ross, Aretha Franklin etc you clearly don't know much about their careers either. There was no "framing" in my evidence at all because unlike you I actually know a lot about these acts and did my research, when you compare these acts who had their peak in the 60s or 70s vs the 80s... They indeed fell off badly throughout the 80s.

how about the artist from the 00's now in 2021 ...???

Joni Mitchell, Aretha Franklin, Donna Summer, Stevie Wonder, Diana Ross, Bob Dylan weren't quite successful.

Whereas you like to ignore facts it would appear. Whether I know much about the artists or not (which I admitted I did not) Wiki does, and I quoted you extracts that completely disprove your allegations. It's a real shame when facts get in the way of your personal bias innit?

YOU might not THINK the music of these artists was up to scratch, but commercially it was. Elton may have had major hits in the seventies but he was still having them in the eighties. All your post has done is taken what I said (quoted) and said "yeah but in the seventies they did this." I'm not denying that. You're the one who's claiming these artists all "fell off" as you like to put it in the 80s. I've shown you that's a false premise. I've demonstrated it by pulling articles to show you what people who know about it say. You could say someone like I don't know maybe Donovan fell off in the 80s, or Cat Stevens, and I wouldn't argue. Virtually nothing has been heard of them since. But the artists you chose, nah, you're just wrong, man, and you need to revisit that idea. Everyone here is quite aware that you hate anything after 1980 - almost every thread you make has that bias - but that doesn't mean you can change the facts. Sorry.

Oh lord, how wrong could you be, you never once showed any "false" premise at all regarding the acts I picked such as Donna Summer, Stevie Wonder, Diana Ross, Barbra, Joni Mitchell, EWF, Bob Dylan, Aretha Franklin etc, in fact you already admitted that you didn't know much about them at all which makes your post laughable to begin with... I posted their biggest success and mentioned the that if you do a comparison to the 80s and then you will realise they fell off pretty damn badly which is the truth. Commercially... I didn't ignore your so called facts, you hardly post any, you're badly informed...

There's no "bias" at all about this because you can easily research this yourself but is clearly obvious you didn't and instead you still want to play the "I know it all" gimmick which is not working out for you, also where did you get this idea that I "hate" anything post 1980? I never once said this, I love 80s music a lot, someone is accusing me of lying it seems, shame.

But anyways, you can't change what happened son... "Sorry."

At most you could say that three albums were in a similar style, but it's not as if every single Bowie album prior to the 80s was in a completely different style.

"Evolve" doesn't imply "adventurous" and it doesn't imply "progress," which is a subjective evaluation anyway.

It just implies difference from what came before, especially where the difference is in response to environmental factors.

At any rate, people can just say that they don't like popular 80s musical trends if they don't. Some people like those trends, at least to some extent. And a lot of the artists mentioned were certainly successful in terms of sales, charts, MTV play, etc.

To jump into the Sly-Troll fray a little:

Actually Aerosmith, thanks to the jumpstart by Run-DMC, ended up with a string of hits from the late eighties into the nineties and, commercially at least, may have been even more successful then than they were in the seventies.

As for the others, I tend to lean more towards the creative side than the commercial side. Bowie probably had his biggest commercial success in the eighties; I remember Lets Dance being huge in its day. But critically, well, he wasn't exactly Ziggy Stardust, was he? Again, he would get back on track and would enhance his legend.

I have to admit I haven't heard much from Joni Mitchell past the seventies either and she was one of the decade's best songwriters. She's still out there though. Maybe it's all just about getting older and having new interests (Paul Simon did some of his best work in the eighties) or maybe just wanted to make more money or simply wanted to retire, who knows?

Not that I see them as separated, but I like both. I like lots of very experimental, avant-garde stuff, and I like lots of very commercial pop stuff. And then of course I like all sorts of things in between. I just like the vast majority of music period.

This troll is not sly.
:shycouch:

PS OP, I have no idea what you mean by EWF comment? Maybe you're confusing it with my NLF one: Nothing Lasts Forever. As for being unable to change what's happened, hell son, I gave you the facts as they were written. You don't want to accept them, that's up to you. But you can't make it be the way you want it to be, when it's another way entirely.

Anyhoo, I got work to do so have fun dumping on everything from 1980 on. Doesn't bother me, but pretending something was one way when it wasn't kind of does.

Edit: Oh wait I get it. EWF. Earth Wind and Fire. Right. Well, I'm not sure I said anything there that wasn't true.

Edit edit: so basically the answer to your question in the OP, OP, is nothing. Some artists got older, some fell out of favour with the public (seen as old/uncool/so over/unhip/add eighties phrase of your choice here), some tried to go new directions, with varying results. Some perhaps had their money made and just turned out albums to fulfil contractual obligations. And again, as I said, NLF. And it doesn't. So there's no big mystery here. People's tastes change, both those of artists and of fans, and sometimes they diverge. It has happened in every decade and surely will continue to happen.

Just popped back from 2029 where the buzz is "Why did Taylor Swift lose it after 2020?" See?

Lol, your name suits you very well, I seriously don't understand why you're making lies up about me hating on 80s music when I've never once bashed that decade but hey, I suppose that's what happens when someone has proven you wrong and then you lose the plot... Can't have it both ways.

Sorry young'un, you didn't present any facts at all because you already admitted that you didn't know much about half of the acts I mentioned and now your post is filled with assumptions... :rofl:

That's just what the 80s do to people I guess

https://i.postimg.cc/jdwTknVn/5tBjbam.jpg
photo: Bob Dylan playing Blowin' In The Wind live in 1986

Don't forget the 80s harmonica made of C-4.