Frownland

The end of big label genre marketing campaigns.

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

TheBig3

Uh, alright but Stomp Clap Hey wasn't new by any means. If anything is was suburban kids LARPing about their depression-era great grandparents.

I don't think music is done by a long shot, but we're just at a point where people have focus groups, Spotify data, and run ROIs on chord progressions so we get 1-5-6-4 ad nauseam. You're starting to see this "give me more of the familiar" die a bit with Trap beats not being as popular as they were.

I think the general ****tyness going on now is a product of the restructuring of music post-gate keepers. Spotify seems to be the end-point to the Napster revolution and the way bands write, tour, and release "albums" should stabilize in the near term.

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Mucha na Dziko

Well, your metaphor is actually implying by itself what is the more creatve/innovative process.

Creating new puzzle pieces is a far more creative process than making combinations of existing puzzle pieces. Even because of the simple fact that thanks to these new puzzle pieces you can make even more combinations. Not mentioning the art and skill needed to invent a puzzle piece that's never existed before (making combinations of puzzles is a rather derivative process – no artisan skill needed; only some free time and boredom).

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Frownland

Imaginative use of musical tools and the invention of them aren't automatically more or less creative than each other imo. They can both be happened upon accidentally or meticulously coordinated, so I see why Guybrush puts them together (though distinguishing them doesn't necessarily seem helpful).

If an artist invents an existing idea that they never heard before by different means, is it still innovative?

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Mucha na Dziko

My comment was purely about the metaphor itself. It works differently in art.

Well, for him for sure – as a way of growing artistically, etc. Then if he'll make it public, he'll soon find out he wasn't as groundbreaking as he thought he is.

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Frownland

The metaphor's about art...

That's how it might be received sure, but with art generally being an act of self-expression, I'm leaning towards "yes". I wouldn't call it a hard rule though.

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Mucha na Dziko

yeah, I know. I merely pointed out why it's not that good of a metaphor

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Frownland

By separating it from its intended meaning, which is useful how?

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Guybrush

I think it depends. A new puzzle piece could look much like another. Let's say hypothetically that all popular music is made in 4/4. You make a song in 5/4, creating a new puzzle piece. Someone else hears it and thinks hey, an odd time signature! I'll make a song in 7/8.

The invention of the 5/4 time signature would have happened in a world where only 4/4 time signatures exist whereas the invention of the 7/8 would happen in a world where both 4/4 and 5/4 existed before it. Hence, I would say invention of the 5/4 time signature is a greater innovation than the 7/8 (in this example).

BUT I readily concede that the metaphor shouldn't be taken too literally. What I wanted to illustrate was that the nature of innovation itself changes over time. As previously stated, a musical meme, if such a thing could be defined, isn't necessarily easily tied to either one of these two suggested forms of innovation in any clear way and might be a blend. This doesn't invalidate the usefulness of the metaphor, but it shouldn't be expected to exactly mirror reality or imply that reality is easily measurable by those terms. I wrote that you could perhaps try to do it, but it would be a lot of work and require a lot of arbitrary assumptions about what constitutes an innovative meme, how do you determine its new-puzzleness vs. combination-ness, etc.

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