The end of musical innovation

TheBig3 · 08-19-2021, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I believe I already took one. And I'm just too lazy to make a new avatar now that I'm mostly posting on my phone.

Did the computer die? My condolences either way. I think this site was created before phones existed.

The Batlord · 08-19-2021, 10:03 PM

Nah I'm just too lazy to sit at my computer when I can lay in bed with my phone.

TheBig3 · 08-20-2021, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

a lot of the time everyone is just talking to themselves I feel, because the tastes vary so wildly here

there's way more consensus on what "the good music" is in some other more productive outlets

I guess that's fair, but why **** on what other people like? I try to find new stuff to try here. E.g. After your "Help! I'm a Rock" comment, I went and listened to a ton of Zappa stuff I hadn't heard before. Which I think I'm better for having done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Nah I'm just too lazy to sit at my computer when I can lay in bed with my phone.

alright then. Enjoy the mattress, friend.

Guybrush · 08-21-2021, 07:26 PM

This may be redundant, but a simple point may clear up some of the discussions in this thread.

Lets imagine that a piece of music is like a puzzle made up of many pieces. Pieces like time signatures, harmonies, perhaps a riff, whatever - all the things that create that piece of music. I would suggest that there are mainly two kinds of innovation that can take place.

You can make new kinds of puzzle pieces never heard before
You can combine puzzle pieces into combinations that have not been heard before

So going with this, one could probably make a case for the following statements:

There are less new puzzle pieces being made. Most were made a long time ago.
The possible combinations of puzzle pieces increases rapidly (exponentionally) when new pieces are made

Hence, there could or should be a decrease now compared to earlier in terms of new pieces being made, but a vast increase in the new combinations they appear in.

Then I guess you could possibly try to gauge how comparatively creative these two separate ways of innovation are.

Of course, reality and music innovation isn't actually this neat and binary and one act of innovation may be a blend of both, but it might still illustrate something real.

SlyStone63 · 08-22-2021, 11:17 AM

Listen kids... Music is dead, get over it, 50s-80s were the best era's. Now get off my lawn

jadis · 08-22-2021, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlyStone63

Listen kids... Music is dead, get over it, 50s-80s were the best era's. Now get off my lawn

And don't you ever listen to the mean boys, intellectual disability is nothing to be ashamed of. You're doing great, sweetheart!

**Frownland** · 08-22-2021, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guybrush

This may be redundant, but a simple point may clear up some of the discussions in this thread.

Lets imagine that a piece of music is like a puzzle made up of many pieces. Pieces like time signatures, harmonies, perhaps a riff, whatever - all the things that create that piece of music. I would suggest that there are mainly two kinds of innovation that can take place.

You can make new kinds of puzzle pieces never heard before
You can combine puzzle pieces into combinations that have not been heard before

So going with this, one could probably make a case for the following statements:

There are less new puzzle pieces being made. Most were made a long time ago.
The possible combinations of puzzle pieces increases rapidly (exponentionally) when new pieces are made

Hence, there could or should be a decrease now compared to earlier in terms of new pieces being made, but a vast increase in the new combinations they appear in.

Then I guess you could possibly try to gauge how comparatively creative these two separate ways of innovation are.

Of course, reality and music innovation isn't actually this neat and binary and one act of innovation may be a blend of both, but it might still illustrate something real.

This thought process seems more like laying the groundwork for a deterministic paradigm of music that excludes the possibility of innovations we don't yet have a context for.

Quit the vague gesturing and just say you think innovation in music is on the decline tbh.

The Batlord · 08-22-2021, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

funny because I'm morally opposed to Zappa

Is it the mustache?

TheBig3 · 08-22-2021, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

funny because I'm morally opposed to Zappa

Of course you are. Why wouldn't you be? I'm sure it's all based on facts, and a not-in-any-way irrational worldview.

jadis · 08-22-2021, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

Of course you are. Why wouldn't you be? I'm sure it's all based on facts, and a not-in-any-way irrational worldview.

The single weakest gotcha I've seen on the internet.

He literally stipulated he's making a moral valuation, not a statement of fact.

08-21-2021, 07:26 PM	#124 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	This may be redundant, but a simple point may clear up some of the discussions in this thread. Lets imagine that a piece of music is like a puzzle made up of many pieces. Pieces like time signatures, harmonies, perhaps a riff, whatever - all the things that create that piece of music. I would suggest that there are mainly two kinds of innovation that can take place. You can make new kinds of puzzle pieces never heard before You can combine puzzle pieces into combinations that have not been heard before So going with this, one could probably make a case for the following statements: There are less new puzzle pieces being made. Most were made a long time ago. The possible combinations of puzzle pieces increases rapidly (exponentionally) when new pieces are made Hence, there could or should be a decrease now compared to earlier in terms of new pieces being made, but a vast increase in the new combinations they appear in. Then I guess you could possibly try to gauge how comparatively creative these two separate ways of innovation are. Of course, reality and music innovation isn't actually this neat and binary and one act of innovation may be a blend of both, but it might still illustrate something real. __________________ Something Completely Different

08-22-2021, 11:17 AM	#125 (permalink)
SlyStone63 Music Addict Join Date: Apr 2021 Posts: 74	Listen kids... Music is dead, get over it, 50s-80s were the best era's. Now get off my lawn