Is the pop music paradigm going to die someday?

DriveYourCarDownToTheSea · 12-31-2020, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

already been done...for sure

VU "The Gift" is a song in one ear and a short story in the other, but yes it's rad

it's honestly so ****ing rad

I just checked that out, hadn't heard of it before.

It's sort-of what I was thinking of, but not quite. He's more like reading something with some music in the background. What I was thinking of was you would sing a very long melody to the words of the story.

I was thinking of starting another thread on the idea sometime.

innerspaceboy · 12-31-2020, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriveYourCarDownToTheSea

Technically you're right about the term "popular" music. Whatever you want to call what I described is fine with me.

I was thinking, I'm wondering if you could trace the dominance of the paradigm I was talking about to the advent of recorded music? Prior to that, to enjoy music you had to either play it yourself or go to some sort of concert to see professional musicians (or at least good amateurs) play it. That is, all music was live. I would think that would largely leave the composition and performance of music to people who had some modicum of music skill and education. But once recorded music came along, some person or group of people could record something once, and that one performance then got listened to thousands or millions of times. This made it easier for amateurs to make their own music, so you could call this whole paradigm "the amateurization of music." It's kinda like other things: Once it becomes mass-produced it also become democratized and more consumable by the masses. Like, the McDonald's of music. The shorter and simple format is simply more palatable to the masses whose musical skills, education and sophistication mostly aren't on the level of the professional musicians of yore.

But I think I'd have to think that through some more ...

I'm reminded of a related fun musical fact shared by an old friend of mine. He stated:

Quote:

Miserere mei, Deus, was composed in the 1630's by Gregorio Allegri for use on special occasions in the Sistine Chapel.

Prior to 1770, only 3 copies were authorized to leave the Sistine Chapel: 1 to the Holy Roman Emperor Leopold the 1st, the King of Portugal at that time, and to a Padre Martini. Beyond those 3, the music was forbidden to be circulated.

Until a 14 year old boy attended service in 1771-ish. He thought the piece was very beautiful, and promptly went home and wrote the music out from memory. He attended services again once more so he could make minor corrections.

That juvenile pirate delinquent was Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, and Miserere was arguably the world's first pirated song.

Trollheart · 01-01-2021, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerspaceboy

I'm reminded of a related fun musical fact shared by an old friend of mine. He stated:

I ****ing love this story! Mozart sets up the first Pirate Bay in history!

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

Music can be all sorts of things for all sorts of people like any other Art medium I suppose

same thing in literature, or movies

but idk there is a weird dissonance because everyone "likes music"...but I feel I'm talking about something totally different when I say I'm into music

You're right. Of every 10 people who say "I'm into or enjoy music" maybe 2 or 3 at most can talk knowledgeably about it and really care about the artists other than just something to entertain them for short spells. You'll have, no doubt, among all the millions who cried when say Bowie died, millions more who either didn't know him (too young) or didn't get that affected by his death. People like them just move on, or occasionally hear his music again after he's passed and it makes no impression on them. I still tear up a little when I hear a Bowie song now. Reminds me he's no longer here, and the world is that little bit poorer.

**Frownland** · 01-01-2021, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriveYourCarDownToTheSea

once recorded music came along, some person or group of people could record something once, and that one performance then got listened to thousands or millions of times. This made it easier for amateurs to make their own music, so you could call this whole paradigm "the amateurization of music." It's kinda like other things: Once it becomes mass-produced it also become democratized and more consumable by the masses. Like, the McDonald's of music. The shorter and simple format is simply more palatable to the masses whose musical skills, education and sophistication mostly aren't on the level of the professional musicians of yore.

But I think I'd have to think that through some more ...

Nah, virtuoso worship is relatively new and folk music (as in amateur music, not the genre) is as old as music itself.

**Marie Monday** · 01-01-2021, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Nah, virtuoso worship is relatively new and folk music (as in amateur music, not the genre) is as old as music itself.

the comment about amateur music is definitely true, but are you sure about virtuoso worship? Like, how new is new and what qualifies as worship? I'm reading a book about medieval Japan and they seem to find virtuoso musicians pretty important. And there's the Greek myth about Orpheus of course

**Frownland** · 01-01-2021, 12:37 PM

By worship I meant more like seeking virtuosity as the norm as opposed to favouring stronger compositions (not that they're mutually exclusive but you know what I mean). I think it was largely driven by increasingly formal performances in concert halls begging more novel displays, so I had Paganini and Lizst in mind as the starting point for that. You're right that being rightly impressed by virtuosos isn't new and I'm probably doing a eurocentrism right now though lol

DriveYourCarDownToTheSea · 01-01-2021, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

no offense but this is some cringe

the democratization of music starting as early as the 50s led to an explosion of creativity

Well ... yeah sort of. But that creativity was largely within the fairly narrow format I described in my OP.

You could also say there was an explosion of musical creativity in the early 19th Century when the Romantic era was ushered in by Beethoven, when polyphonic music became developed in the Middle Ages, and all kinds of other pre-industrial eras. So I'm not sure explosions of creativity have all that much to do with democratization.

Trollheart · 01-01-2021, 03:45 PM

Incidentally, I don't know if this fits the bill, but Hostsonaten wrote this verbatim from the Coleridge poem...

DriveYourCarDownToTheSea · 01-01-2021, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Incidentally, I don't know if this fits the bill, but Hostsonaten wrote this verbatim from the Coleridge poem...

That's pretty close, but it's still a poem. And the melodies still repeat.

Anyway I want to get away from that specific thing because, as I said, I've been thinking of doing a separate thread on it.

DriveYourCarDownToTheSea · 01-01-2021, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

even if we were just talking about The Beatles really they had music outside the format you're describing

I can't think of a single Beatles song that doesn't follow that format ... except maybe Revolution #9, which doesn't really count.

01-01-2021, 12:37 PM	#26 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	By worship I meant more like seeking virtuosity as the norm as opposed to favouring stronger compositions (not that they're mutually exclusive but you know what I mean). I think it was largely driven by increasingly formal performances in concert halls begging more novel displays, so I had Paganini and Lizst in mind as the starting point for that. You're right that being rightly impressed by virtuosos isn't new and I'm probably doing a eurocentrism right now though lol __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

01-01-2021, 03:45 PM	#28 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,992	Incidentally, I don't know if this fits the bill, but Hostsonaten wrote this verbatim from the Coleridge poem... __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018