Songwriters you respect, even if you don't like the music

TheBig3 · 04-29-2020, 09:05 AM

I'm trapped at home, and I'm once again attempting to learn guitar. Someday I'll get these chord transitions down, but in the meantime, I'm learning songs that have some personality on limited chords. That's leading me to play a lot of songs where I wouldn't listen to the music, even if I really like the songcraft.

This morning that lead me to the Goo Goo Dolls (admittedly, after seeing a meme). I haven't heard anything by them since 1998's Dizzy Up the Girl (which in 2020 sounds a bit rapey, tbh) and at the time I was about 15. As you can imagine, I wasn't a fan. I had tons of Nu-metal to listen to.

But at this point, I can look back and say in terms of pop-acoustic hooks, they had some great songwriting. Like many of the failed pop-punk bands that went full pop, if they'd faded into the background and John Rzeznik just wrote for other people (he might have, I don't know) he'd probably be better off.

So who is a songwriter you respect but likely wouldn't buy an album from?

**Frownland** · 04-29-2020, 09:28 AM

I respect all artists in the sense that I give them the benefit of the doubt that what they're releasing is their true artistic vision, but in the same fold, I withhold respect until the music is good enough to deserve it and don't give points for ambition, virtuosity, or other markers of "talent" when it's not put to good use.

That said, while I wouldn't say that this applies to Kanye on the whole since the Yeezus though Nasir run was awesome, My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy is a great example of this. It's very well done, meticulous, innovative, and its influence is undeniable, but it also ****ing sucks.

Plankton · 04-29-2020, 10:10 AM

I could never get past the extreme theory approach to Alan Holdsworth's stuff. I've learned a few of his licks in the past, but I don't plan on buying or listening to any more of it. Things always change for me though, so who knows.

**Frownland** · 04-29-2020, 10:15 AM

Why are great guitarists like him so consistently horrible at songwriting? He was awesome on Bundles and blended well with Soft Machine's style, but that's about the extent that I appreciate him.

Plankton · 04-29-2020, 10:32 AM

He's from the mindset of "The More Difficult, The Better" approach to anything. He probably wipes with a brillo pad out of spite.

OccultHawk · 04-29-2020, 10:33 AM

I respect anyone who can make a living making art. Hell, I respect anyone who has ever earned a dime doing it. Most people who try to be artists can’t even give it away for free.

OccultHawk · 04-30-2020, 09:14 PM

No doubt

But if they’re good I respect them for it not for their popularity

As for plan b’s they probably weren’t going to work out either

Anteater · 05-01-2020, 04:25 PM

Elton John probably.

DriveYourCarDownToTheSea · 05-01-2020, 06:14 PM

I was never much of a fan of Bob Dylan's stuff, mostly because I found the way he sang to be annoying. But anytime somebody did a cover of it I tended to like it, so that gave me some respect for him.

TheBig3 · 05-06-2020, 09:26 PM

Steely Dan for me. That sort of jazz is just the antithesis of my existence. You can almost hear the Hawaiian Shirts.

04-29-2020, 09:05 AM	#1 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,172	Songwriters you respect, even if you don't like the music I'm trapped at home, and I'm once again attempting to learn guitar. Someday I'll get these chord transitions down, but in the meantime, I'm learning songs that have some personality on limited chords. That's leading me to play a lot of songs where I wouldn't listen to the music, even if I really like the songcraft. This morning that lead me to the Goo Goo Dolls (admittedly, after seeing a meme). I haven't heard anything by them since 1998's Dizzy Up the Girl (which in 2020 sounds a bit rapey, tbh) and at the time I was about 15. As you can imagine, I wasn't a fan. I had tons of Nu-metal to listen to. But at this point, I can look back and say in terms of pop-acoustic hooks, they had some great songwriting. Like many of the failed pop-punk bands that went full pop, if they'd faded into the background and John Rzeznik just wrote for other people (he might have, I don't know) he'd probably be better off. So who is a songwriter you respect but likely wouldn't buy an album from?

04-29-2020, 09:28 AM	#2 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	I respect all artists in the sense that I give them the benefit of the doubt that what they're releasing is their true artistic vision, but in the same fold, I withhold respect until the music is good enough to deserve it and don't give points for ambition, virtuosity, or other markers of "talent" when it's not put to good use. That said, while I wouldn't say that this applies to Kanye on the whole since the Yeezus though Nasir run was awesome, My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy is a great example of this. It's very well done, meticulous, innovative, and its influence is undeniable, but it also ***ing sucks. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.* d e a f b o x

04-29-2020, 10:10 AM	#3 (permalink)
Plankton Just Keep Swimming... Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: See signature... Posts: 7,765	I could never get past the extreme theory approach to Alan Holdsworth's stuff. I've learned a few of his licks in the past, but I don't plan on buying or listening to any more of it. Things always change for me though, so who knows. __________________ See location...

04-29-2020, 10:15 AM	#4 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Why are great guitarists like him so consistently horrible at songwriting? He was awesome on Bundles and blended well with Soft Machine's style, but that's about the extent that I appreciate him. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

04-29-2020, 10:32 AM	#5 (permalink)
Plankton Just Keep Swimming... Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: See signature... Posts: 7,765	He's from the mindset of "The More Difficult, The Better" approach to anything. He probably wipes with a brillo pad out of spite. __________________ See location...

04-29-2020, 10:33 AM	#6 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	I respect anyone who can make a living making art. Hell, I respect anyone who has ever earned a dime doing it. Most people who try to be artists can’t even give it away for free. __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

04-30-2020, 09:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	No doubt But if they’re good I respect them for it not for their popularity As for plan b’s they probably weren’t going to work out either __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

05-01-2020, 06:14 PM	#9 (permalink)
DriveYourCarDownToTheSea AllTheWhileYouChargeAFee Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Kansas City Posts: 1,174	I was never much of a fan of Bob Dylan's stuff, mostly because I found the way he sang to be annoying. But anytime somebody did a cover of it I tended to like it, so that gave me some respect for him. __________________ Stop and find a pretty shell for her Beach Boys vs Beatles comparisons begin here

05-06-2020, 09:26 PM	#10 (permalink)
TheBig3 killedmyraindog Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 11,172	Steely Dan for me. That sort of jazz is just the antithesis of my existence. You can almost hear the Hawaiian Shirts.