Unitron

+10000000000

Couldn't agree more. Not only that, but the productions are so slick and overpolished that there is absolutely zero point of any riffs actually being there. If you're going to play like a pop band, don't try and pretend to be a metal band.

Anyway, in relation to the topic:

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RYM

The Batlord

If you're going to make pop then make the best pop.

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MicShazam

Basically, yeah.

I'm just gonna be of the opinion that metalheads who entirely dismiss modern metal are no different than some guy who complains rock music doesn't sound like Zeppelin anymore.

I mean, whatever floats people's boats.

Specifically about that Amaranthe song though, I think the " If you're going to play like a pop band, don't try and pretend to be a metal band" line is pretty damn weird. You make the rules of metal? They're not "pretending" anything. They're doing a thing, if anything, without pretensions. Get your head out of your boring 80's metal elitist butt.

Unitron

No, I don't make the rules of metal, but you've got to draw the line somewhere. What elements of metal does Amaranthe have? They have growls and generic power metal riffs, but everything else about them is pop. So they technically have metal elements, but I personally would never consider them to be metal and they don't feel like a metal band to me. To each their own, I don't care if people like them.

"boring 80's metal elitist" I didn't know that could be applied to someone who's a fan of a lot of nu metal bands and considers Blue Cheer, Gun, and Golden Earring to be metal before Black Sabbath.

and before an argument starts about "you only consider stuff you like metal", Limp Bizkit is metal. They suck, but I would never try and argue that they aren't a metal band.

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MicShazam

Metal drumming, metal riffs, metal vocals. Plus they're not really doing anything that hasn't been seen in all sorts of other metal bands for 20+ years, except for the riff style, which is more current.

"No, I don't make the rules of metal, but you've got to draw the line somewhere"

I draw that line at bands that don't have metal elements.

Like Mumford & Sons.

Unitron

I was previously only familiar with Amaranthe through their second album, so to be fair I listened to the song you posted. It sounds like the pop music that gets played at my job, just with metal instrumentation added, and those vocals apart from the growls just don't sound metal at all to me.

Anyway, there's no point in arguing as we clearly have different views about what makes something metal. I'll respect your opinion as long you respect mine.

I don't know if I could honestly accurately describe what makes something metal to me. I think the main thing is if it can be traced back to metal's roots in any way? I believe that metal certainly evolves, but it doesn't change. Blue Cheer is still just as metal as they were in 1968, and the emergence of death metal and black metal did nothing to change that.

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MicShazam

I absolutely respect your opinon - agreeing with it or not.

The way I see it, metal has increadingly forged a path of it's own since it's inception. It only makes sense that the newest branches on that tree sound less like Sabbath than 70's metal or 80's metal. I know your view is adopted by Encyclopedia Metallum (assuming you know that site) and, surprise surprise, I completely disagree with their decisions on what to exclude from their databases.

Palm muted, heavily distorted riffs. Bass and drums that mainly reinforce the rhythm and power of the riffs. Most music that goes by that approach is metal in my eyes. Of course there's a little bit more to it than that, but that's the simple version.

Amaranthe may not sound a lot like proto metal, but the connection becomes clear if you go proto metal -> thrash -> death -> melodic death metal -> modern progressive metal -> the musical stylings of a band like Amaranthe.
That's more or less the lineage of their riffing style, I suppose.

Unitron

My view doesn't align with Metallum, I absolutely hate that site. They don't allow nu metal, funk metal, rap metal, most industrial metal, a handful of 70's metal, or pre-Sabbath metal. They also include many bands that I don't really think are metal.

The way I see it, is that metal is completely incompatible with pop music which Amaranthe borrows heavily from. Since its inception, metal has been a complete opposite from pop. With what I consider to be one of the first metal songs, it has this unique heaviness, darkness, and energy that screams heavy metal. It's a raw burst of emotion and distortion, and evokes feelings that pop music (at least from what I've heard) isn't allowed to express. There's no connection to the 60's pop of the time:

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Janszoon

I've randomly had Blondie's "Dreaming" stuck in my head for the better part of a week.



The interesting thing about watching this video is how perfectly it shows the 70s turning into the 80s.

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The Batlord

I never said that. I said they were incompetent.

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