Your Current Earworm

Unitron · 11-05-2018, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

That's...interesting.

I guess that doesn't make much sense. What I meant was that while genres evolve, that doesn't cancel out what the genre was at its inception. Jazz is another example of this, a lot of modern jazz sounds nothing like the big band/swing of the 30's and 40's, but big band is still completely jazz.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Obviously artists don't cancel one another out, but would you agree that death and black metal are heavier than proto-metal?

Generally yes, but it also depends on the band. I personally find Blue Cheer to be heavier than some black metal bands I've heard, but that's because black metal seems to rely more on atmosphere and darkness than heaviness to my ears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Is that just as a preference or do you think that metal cannot be integrated with pop? If it's the latter that's just silly since the two have influenced each other for decades. Just look at power metal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by windsock

This bandying about of the "pop" term seems odd if we don't define it, and if it's undefined how can we make the sweeping assessment that the fusion of metal and pop is impossible? Hell, I would consider the Black Album to be somewhat of a "pop metal" album- it's slower and extremely melodic with poppy hooks and clean vocals. It's a good album to boot!

Sure metal's integrated with pop music further in other genres, such as the aforementioned power metal, but bands like Dragonforce I find entertaining in their own right. And they're one of the poppiest power bands out there.

Ultimately, saying that metal is "completely incompatible" with "pop" music is far too broad a statement to make. Pop music has developed in tandem with and has inspired countless bands.

You both bring up good points, and I probably made my earlier statement in haste. I think every different kind of music has influenced another in some shape or form, but I do think there is only so far you can take an influence before it becomes more of something else. In Amaranthe's case, they have elements of metal yes, but in my opinion fall much more on the side of pop than metal. However, this is where genre definitions become much more subjective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by windsock

As for Blue Cheer- they, at the time of Vincebus Eruptum, were the heaviest of the lot. They were heavy ****ing metal. This, I believe, earns them the right to exist under the heavy metal moniker. Does that make them comparable to the more traditional understanding of metal (death, thrash, etc.)? I don't think so. Metal has certainly developed over the years, getting heavier and heavier as time progresses, but I think casting off a band as being not metal simply because they don't match the standards of bands that came about a decade after them is misjudged.

+1

**Frownland** · 11-05-2018, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unitron

I guess that doesn't make much sense. What I meant was that while genres evolve, that doesn't cancel out what the genre was at its inception. Jazz is another example of this, a lot of modern jazz sounds nothing like the big band/swing of the 30's and 40's, but big band is still completely jazz.

That makes more sense, I definitely agree that modern music evolution doesn't cancel out past status. However, I would definitely say that a genre can evolve past the point of recognition--to carry on your analogy, compare Dixieland jazz with EAI and their only real connection is historical as opposed to anything sonic.

This conversation kind of reminds me of how I distinguish jazz from jazziness. After over of 100 years of widening the umbrella, jazz includes a LOT. I have no qualms calling stuff like Kenny G jazz even though he doesn't have an emotive bone in his body. Then there's jazziness where an artist revels in freedom, welcomes accidents with gusto, and emulates the spirit of what jazz is all about. There are jazz artists who abhor jazziness and there are punk bands that are more jazzy than 95% of jazz artists. It's a feeling.

I don't even know the band that you're talking about here, but since they identifiably incorporate metal elements despite a pop philosophy or aesthetic, I think that it's fair to call them metal. It's also fair to call them (what I assume) is ****e.

Unitron · 11-05-2018, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

That makes more sense, I definitely agree that modern music evolution doesn't cancel out past status. However, I would definitely say that a genre can evolve past the point of recognition--to carry on your analogy, compare Dixieland jazz with EAI and their only real connection is historical as opposed to anything sonic.

This conversation kind of reminds me of how I distinguish jazz from jazziness. After over of 100 years of widening the umbrella, jazz includes a LOT. I have no qualms calling stuff like Kenny G jazz even though he doesn't have an emotive bone in his body. Then there's jazziness where an artist revels in freedom, welcomes accidents with gusto, and emulates the spirit of what jazz is all about. There are jazz artists who abhor jazziness and there are punk bands that are more jazzy than 95% of jazz artists. It's a feeling.

I don't even know the band that you're talking about here, but since they identifiably incorporate metal elements despite a pop philosophy or aesthetic, I think that it's fair to call them metal. It's also fair to call them (what I assume) is ****e.

That's a great way of describing how I feel about metal. The difference between something that technically is metal and the metal spirit. Sticking with the bands talked about, I find Blue Cheer to fit my definitions of both metal and the feeling of metal; therefore, are a lot more metal than several modern metal acts such as Amaranthe.

The Batlord · 11-05-2018, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicShazam

That was a reply to Unitron, so I never said that you said that.
Don't say that I said that you said that because I never said that you said that.

Or something.

And I think they do what they do very well. Not seeing any lack of skill there, even if at least one vocalist seems a bit superfluous. If anything, they clearly know how to play their instruments on a professional level. Elize Ryd has a great voice. Maybe slightly wasted on that band, but oh well.

You can be a competent guitarist while also being an incompetent bread maker. I believe this is the same with Amaranthe in that video except obviously replace "making bread" with "writing aesthetically congruous songs".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unitron

The way I see it, is that metal is completely incompatible with pop music which Amaranthe borrows heavily from. Since its inception, metal has been a complete opposite from pop. With what I consider to be one of the first metal songs, it has this unique heaviness, darkness, and energy that screams heavy metal. It's a raw burst of emotion and distortion, and evokes feelings that pop music (at least from what I've heard) isn't allowed to express. There's no connection to the 60's pop of the time:

A god damn pop song that's also a metal song.

Unitron · 11-05-2018, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 66Sexy

A god damn pop song that's also a metal song.

That song is awesome and metal. Hence why I retracted my previous statement.

and at the end of the day all that matters is if the music sounds good and how it makes us feel. This place would be really boring if we all agreed on everything, it's a lot more fun talking about different tastes and opinions than just being an echo chamber like many music sites are

~~MicShazam~~ · 11-06-2018, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 66Sexy

You can be a competent guitarist while also being an incompetent bread maker. I believe this is the same with Amaranthe in that video except obviously replace "making bread" with "writing aesthetically congruous songs".

You shouldn't use your guitar to make bread, I can agree with that.

~~MicShazam~~ · 11-06-2018, 11:33 AM

This one was in my head constantly a few years ago.

Nneka - Heartbeat

rostasi · 11-06-2018, 11:37 AM

Plankton · 11-06-2018, 11:38 AM

Ever since I heard this version of this tune, I have to hear it at least once a day, or I feel "Off" for some reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOwBDlcasZ8

K Addict · 11-24-2018, 02:03 PM

11-06-2018, 11:38 AM	#59 (permalink)
Plankton Just Keep Swimming... Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: See signature... Posts: 7,765	Ever since I heard this version of this tune, I have to hear it at least once a day, or I feel "Off" for some reason. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOwBDlcasZ8 __________________ See location...

11-06-2018, 11:33 AM	#57 (permalink)
~~MicShazam~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Aalborg Posts: 7,634	This one was in my head constantly a few years ago. Nneka - Heartbeat

11-06-2018, 11:37 AM	#58 (permalink)
rostasi . Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 4,007

11-24-2018, 02:03 PM	#60 (permalink)
K Addict Send Help Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Cwm yng Nghymru Posts: 1,352