Unitron

I was previously only familiar with Amaranthe through their second album, so to be fair I listened to the song you posted. It sounds like the pop music that gets played at my job, just with metal instrumentation added, and those vocals apart from the growls just don't sound metal at all to me.

Anyway, there's no point in arguing as we clearly have different views about what makes something metal. I'll respect your opinion as long you respect mine.

I don't know if I could honestly accurately describe what makes something metal to me. I think the main thing is if it can be traced back to metal's roots in any way? I believe that metal certainly evolves, but it doesn't change. Blue Cheer is still just as metal as they were in 1968, and the emergence of death metal and black metal did nothing to change that.

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MicShazam

I absolutely respect your opinon - agreeing with it or not.

The way I see it, metal has increadingly forged a path of it's own since it's inception. It only makes sense that the newest branches on that tree sound less like Sabbath than 70's metal or 80's metal. I know your view is adopted by Encyclopedia Metallum (assuming you know that site) and, surprise surprise, I completely disagree with their decisions on what to exclude from their databases.

Palm muted, heavily distorted riffs. Bass and drums that mainly reinforce the rhythm and power of the riffs. Most music that goes by that approach is metal in my eyes. Of course there's a little bit more to it than that, but that's the simple version.

Amaranthe may not sound a lot like proto metal, but the connection becomes clear if you go proto metal -> thrash -> death -> melodic death metal -> modern progressive metal -> the musical stylings of a band like Amaranthe.
That's more or less the lineage of their riffing style, I suppose.

MicShazam

Did someone say metal earworm?!

The Batlord

I never said that. I said they were incompetent.

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MicShazam

That was a reply to Unitron, so I never said that you said that.
Don't say that I said that you said that because I never said that you said that.

Or something.

And I think they do what they do very well. Not seeing any lack of skill there, even if at least one vocalist seems a bit superfluous. If anything, they clearly know how to play their instruments on a professional level. Elize Ryd has a great voice. Maybe slightly wasted on that band, but oh well.

Unitron

My view doesn't align with Metallum, I absolutely hate that site. They don't allow nu metal, funk metal, rap metal, most industrial metal, a handful of 70's metal, or pre-Sabbath metal. They also include many bands that I don't really think are metal.

The way I see it, is that metal is completely incompatible with pop music which Amaranthe borrows heavily from. Since its inception, metal has been a complete opposite from pop. With what I consider to be one of the first metal songs, it has this unique heaviness, darkness, and energy that screams heavy metal. It's a raw burst of emotion and distortion, and evokes feelings that pop music (at least from what I've heard) isn't allowed to express. There's no connection to the 60's pop of the time:

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Frownland

That's...interesting.

Obviously artists don't cancel one another out, but would you agree that death and black metal are heavier than proto-metal?

Is that just as a preference or do you think that metal cannot be integrated with pop? If it's the latter that's just silly since the two have influenced each other for decades. Just look at power metal.

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Lucem Ferre

Twiztid's newer rock songs these days tries to emulate that poppy, WWE metal and I'm not a fan.

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windsock

This bandying about of the "pop" term seems odd if we don't define it, and if it's undefined how can we make the sweeping assessment that the fusion of metal and pop is impossible? Hell, I would consider the Black Album to be somewhat of a "pop metal" album- it's slower and extremely melodic with poppy hooks and clean vocals. It's a good album to boot!

Sure metal's integrated with pop music further in other genres, such as the aforementioned power metal, but bands like Dragonforce I find entertaining in their own right. And they're one of the poppiest power bands out there.

Ultimately, saying that metal is "completely incompatible" with "pop" music is far too broad a statement to make. Pop music has developed in tandem with and has inspired countless bands.

As for Blue Cheer- they, at the time of Vincebus Eruptum, were the heaviest of the lot. They were heavy ****ing metal. This, I believe, earns them the right to exist under the heavy metal moniker. Does that make them comparable to the more traditional understanding of metal (death, thrash, etc.)? I don't think so. Metal has certainly developed over the years, getting heavier and heavier as time progresses, but I think casting off a band as being not metal simply because they don't match the standards of bands that came about a decade after them is misjudged.

Death metal and black metal are heavier than proto-metal, but proto-metal is still proto-metal.

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Janszoon

I've randomly had Blondie's "Dreaming" stuck in my head for the better part of a week.



The interesting thing about watching this video is how perfectly it shows the 70s turning into the 80s.

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