Trollheart

I'm actually just trolling you with your own logic.
It's pretty impossible to tell you what you missed, as you only listened to one-and-a-half tracks. I could go on at length about this album, as you could about TMR, and neither of us would convince the other. I never expected to you like it. I did expect you to give it more of a fair chance than bailing after one track. That's such a Trollheart move.

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

Frownland

Or demonstrating that you don't understand the logic of difficult music taking time to appreciate.

Well is there anything about the opener that I might appreciate if I returned to it?

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

MicShazam

To be fair, there's a fair bit of musical variety on the album.

Trollheart

Nah, just showing you that, no matter how great you (and a lot of others, no doubt) think certain music may be, there are those who will never "appreciate" it. And it's the same with anything. So I could tell you to listen to this over and over again, and you'd never get it. As I would never get TMR if I did the same. Our minds are, essentially, closed to the music of each other. I don't like yours (and really don't want to like it), you don't like mine, and will take any opportunity to put it down.

That's what you don't seem to accept about TMR, much jazz, experimental, your own music, all the music you like. I just don't like it, and I should not be accused of simply not being able to get it, just as you should not be accused of not being able to get my music. You don't like it: that's fine. I have absolutely zero problem with that, or indeed with anyone else who hates it. I'm used to that sort of reaction by now. I'm not going to constantly bring this album up whenever you diss my music and tell you you don't know what you're talking about. Sound familiar at all?

I just would have had a little more respect for you, had you not dismissed it on the basis of one track. I expected a little more consideration, and I think anyone would expect their album, no matter how distasteful it might be to the person listening, to at least get a fair, and if possible, full, or as close to full as the listener could manage, hearing. That's all. I don't expect you to like it. I did expect you to give it a fair chance.
No. You would and do hate this music. I wouldn't waste my time, and yours, trying to convert you. You reacted pretty much as I expected you would, other than bailing after one track. I personally find lots to admire about this album, but that's me (and a lot of others, though mostly not here). I'm happy enough with that. East is east and all that, and different strokes, or insert your own saying here.

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

Frownland

So you genuinely don't understand how revisiting challenging records can make them more accessible. Got it.

I can respect that but to be fair, what I heard was absolutely terrible.

LIKE WHAT?

I'm asking you because you have a entirely different perspective on the record than I do and I find that interesting because you probably noticed things about the record that I didn't. Talking about music is a great way to waste your time, let's try it out.

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Trollheart

Replace "challenging" with "boring" or "music I don't want to waste my time trying to "get"", and you've got it.
EXACTLY how I felt when listening to TMR, or one of your albums. I'm not saying it's wrong, for you, not by any means. But it shows how sometimes, music one of us thinks is great is just not going to be accessible or enjoyable to the other of us. Musically, we should probably avoid each other, and see each other only at weddings and funerals.
Well all right, but it's hard to explain how I like something you haven't bothered to hear, and won't be listening to, but I'll try. I like the different themes in the lyrics: some are reflections from McAloon's childhood (real or imagined, I don't know, but to me he makes them sound like genuine memories, like in "We Let the Stars Go" where he sings about a girl he used to know who teased him by calling him Paddy-Jo. Is that real? I don't know, but it sounds like the kind of thing that could have happened, and it makes him, for me, more human and ordinary) and the heartbreaking "Doo-Wop in Harlem", some are totally out-of-left-field imaginings, like the "Jesse James Suite". The idea of taking the persona, first of God, then of the Devil, in "One of the Broken" and "Michael" respectively, show me that this guy knows how to write not only good songs, but really different ones.

I'll admit the music is nothing out of the ordinary, but he does use blues, sort of Samba/Latin rhythms, a tango/bolero thing: it's not all just sappy pop love songs. I could just refer you to my original review in my journal, but no doubt you'd call that lazy, and maybe it would be. I can't say why I love this album; I did not expect to, and it took me by surprise how good I found it to be. Maybe I'm just more open to this kind of pop/rock music, and you never will be. Who knows? But I see things here that you obviously don't, and never will. That's okay; I don't have a problem with that. Your opinion of the album won't change mine, but it's sad to hear you dismiss it so quickly and so glibly.

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Frownland

I'm not going to congratulate myself here so this only applies to TMR, but you were unable to appreciate (note that I didn't say enjoy) the record because you genuinely didn't understand it. Further listens help you learn the language, so to speak. As far as I can tell, this record isn't a good comparison because it's still rooted in convention and I don't have to acclimate myself to the musical approach since it's already so present around me. Or is there something that I'm actually missing? This is why I like having musical discussions: they expand and develop perspective.

Right on. If it's well-done on a lyrical level, that's something that I can appreciate about the record but it's not enough to lift it to listenability. When I was listening to it, I was too distracted by how outrageously corny the music was to focus on the lyrics.

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Trollheart

I have to admit, I can get past bog-standard music (see: Bon Jovi, Journey) if the lyrics are there to be appreciated. I'd much sooner hear basic music with well-written songs (lyrically) than intricate music with bad lyrics. However, having said that, I kind of contradict myself, because I'm coming to love Funeral Doom (and Doom in general) and most of the time you can't even hear the lyrics there. But what I mean is, I can dislike pop/rock music more if the lyrics are banal and badly thought out ("Oh baby baby I'm so pretty let's dance" etc). I like to get deep into the lyrics, whereas for you, I know, it's more about how the music fits together. That's cool. We both have different ways to appreciate music. But if nothing else, perhaps my approach shows you how I can appreciate, or even tolerate, if you like, what you would term "boring" music.

Yeah, I like having music discussions too. It's much better than fighting or taking personal offence. We should try to do this more often. Healthier, I think.

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MicShazam

I don't mind if music is very standard either. If there's some kind of "feel" to it that, completely subjectively, speaks to me. Some part of the band's aesthetic. Then I can potentially love it, in spite of it not really being anything original at all.

That probably explains why I love that Stam1na album ("SLK") that we did in the album club a while back, when everyone else just kind of shrugged and didn't get what I thought was amazing about it. It's still one of my all time favorite albums, but it really comes down to some rather intangible elements that help it rise well above it's fairly straight forward genre references.

Trollheart

I think for me it's two things: lyrics and emotions. I like to feel/hear/know that a band or singer spent some time working out what the song was about rather than just throw words or phrases together. This is why the likes of Springsteen's Born to Run album floors me: in a review of it I noted that the album opens with optimism and a desire to be free, two people (well, we assume two: it's never confirmed Mary went with him) hungering to see the big city and leave smalltown America behind ("Thunder Road"), but it ends with one guy on his own, disillusioned, broken, trapped and no doubt wishing he had stayed where he was ("Jungleland"). Now that's writing!

I can listen to music others would find banal if it evokes an emotion in me. Everyone here hates Bon Jovi, but some of their music (alone, regardless of lyrics) has really moved me. Same with Journey, Asia, insert hated band here. But when the two come together - deep, thoughtful, passionate lyrics and powerful, emotional music - that's when it hits the sweet spot and I know I'm going to love it.

The music in JTC is, to be fair, nothing special - eighties synths, drum patterns, a lot of choral stuff (woo-ooh-ooh!) etc. But when you get a song like "One of the Broken", with its throaty, echoey guitar, or "The Wedding March", with its almost twenties/jazz style, it does demonstrate that Prefab are happy to step outside the comfort zone usually inhabited by most pop/rock bands. I couldn't really see, for instance, Deacon Blue doing some of the material Prefab do here on this album, though I love them too.

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018