ImpressionsDesign

Hello everyone, I just joined up here, posted my introduction mere moments ago. I stumbled on this forum on my epic quest to try and grasp why people like music, or at the very least, why certain music appeals to me.

My background, and how I approach the question of 'understanding' music:

I am a Graphic Designer, but unlike most designers, I approach my profession from a purely technical standpoint. Basically, I am not all that creative. But with design, there are fundamentals that allow me to execute effective designs. This leads me to believe that music has it's own set of fundamentals, and that (hopefully) somewhere here on MusicBanter, there is a musician who works from a technical standpoint and can explain it to a robot.

The general consensus from musicians that I know personally is that music is simply magic that cannot be explained with anything but feelings and emotion. This is where conversation breaks down usually. I have the emotional capacity of cardboard, and as such, have trouble comprehending feelings as the answer.

Here's why: If someone were to look at a design and tell me the feeling it gives them, I can probably tell them why. Be it the combination of colors, the way the eye travels on the page, how the shapes are arranged, whatever the case is, there is generally a fundamental at work. Some designers execute principles without knowing, we just call it "the eye" like music has people with an "ear" for it.

To simplify the question: If I hear a piece of music and understand it as "Epic" in sensation, does Music Theory tell me why?

Thanks for taking the time to hear me out. I apologize in advance if you use musical terms and I miss them, I am not a musician, I can't even say I was a fan until a couple of years ago. This sleep impacting obsession of mine is fairly new.

Pet_Sounds

If you're talking about classical (and maybe jazz), yes; theory can often explain the emotions it triggers. If you're talking about less technical music (e.g. most rock 'n' roll), you don't really need theory beyond a few chords.

It's not like someone has written deterministic laws of music, but music is similar to all other forms of art in that there are fundamentals "at work."

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grindy

It's a complex interaction of music theory, memories/experiences/cultural background and neurobiological factors.

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ImpressionsDesign

Thank you both for your input, I admittedly did not expect such straightforward answers after my previous conversations on the topic.

It sounds like I have a need to learn some theory. I have a tendency to lean towards metal and classical, and especially cases where the two mix. I am told that the combination isn't an unusual pairing for shared tastes because some Metal draws from classical influence. Operating under the assumption that is a true statement, maybe Theory will give me insight into both.

Do you happen to have any resources you might recommend?

MicShazam

The most basic technique & reaction correlation I can think of is major chords = happy, minor chords = sad.

But there's a great amount of resources of varying kinds online, for learning music theory. You can get just about as technical as you wish if you keep learning. There are composers who ahve composed pieces at an almost purely mathematical level.

However, if you ask most musicians, theory is useful but not worth much without a driver behind the wheel, i.e. a person with a perspective, preferences, ideas, that inform the choices made while composing/playing.

I don't actually buy that a person without such an internal drive can exist. You cannot possibly be that robotic. All humans have some kind of worldview, and that's what comes to expression when humans are creative. What you can lack is the courage to follow through and just do it your own way. That's my view anyway.

Chula Vista

The best part of Western music is that at all times you're only a half step away from a "right" note.

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DriveYourCarDownToTheSea

This is sort of an interesting question, often times I try to figure out why I like certain kinds of music or songs. Some I can figure out why I do, some I can't. For the most part, I don't think music theory, in and of itself, would really help to explain anything, although it's a good start. However, there are definite "qualities" of songs that really hit the spot for me, and I guess, to some extent those qualities can be described in a semi-technical way.

The songs that appeal to me most are ones that make me cry. I like other songs for other reasons, but the ones I like the best are ones that bring me to tears. And there are several "qualities" in songs that do this to me.

One of those qualities is what I personally call "tension." There are just certain songs that have this certain kind of "tension" in them that, at least when I'm in the right mood, makes tears stream down my cheeks. Not sure why, they just do. It's sort of hard to "technically" describe this tension, but I can show you several songs that definitely have this tension.

One such song is Rock and Roll Woman by Buffalo Springfield. As I type this I am listening to it and literally tears are streaming down my cheeks. The acoustic guitar line is doing its own thing and creates this contrast to - or tension with - the main vocals that just hits me right *there* for some reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QDpdS3Atyo
A song I consider similar - though it doesn't make me cry as often - but it has this same kind of arpeggioed acoustic guitar line that the Buffalo Springfield song has that creates this sort of tension with the vocal line, is ONJ's Please Mr Please, believe it or not:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6JJjfnNwsY

Somewhat similar are a certain category of songs that have this combination of tension and what I call "desperation." The classic example of this to me is Battle of Evermore:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_3yDImIQYU
The whole song is just like this long, drawn out cry for help, or something. Bearing your soul at the top of your lungs. Really hits me *there*.

Finally there are songs that are just flat-out beautiful and sad, that often bring tears to my eyes. My favorite example is EJ's First Episode at Hienton:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPP4N820BBY

Another thing that sometimes brings tears to my eyes is complexity. I just *love* songs with a thousand things going on all at once, total sensory overload. Progressive rock is really good at this. A song like I've Seen All Good People is a great example. I love timing all the different parts coming in at different times, noticing how each part compliments each other, and so on. Not as much of a tear jerker as the "types" above, but if I'm in the right mood, it'll do it to me, in a sort of "joyous overload" kind of reaction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJM7TdshUbw

Finally, there is what I (and others) call "color" in music. This is hard to describe technically, but you know it when you hear it. Psychedelic rock has lots of "color" as do classical composers such as Debussy and Ravel. I love this kind of stuff, I find it very "visual" (even without a video!) Some examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPjVlkcai78
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHrstmOPKBQ
Believe it or not, but I could personally consider both the Tame Impala song and the Ravel piece to be in the same genre.

In summary, at least based on my experience, I think "music theory" may be a start, but you really need to go deeper to do what you want to do. Music theory gives you the paint and the brushes you need to paint the painting, but you'd really need to learn why some colors look better next to each other, and that sort of thing to really understand how to make a good painting.

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Neapolitan

This is Scott Murphy's own system. He is only counting half-steps from chord to chords but not including the root note of the first chord he started with. His numbers are half-steps not intervals. How he builds chords and shows the distance between two chords is different than you would build chords and explain chord progressions using music theory. Needless to say music theory and his system are two different things. Still it is interesting to watch.
How to Imitate a Whole Lot of Hollywood Film Music In Four Easy Steps

How Movies Mourn With Only Two Chords



I've read Aaron Copland's book all the way through and enjoyed it. Most of the things he mentioned in the book I already knew, but it was still worth the read.
What to Listen for in Music
by Aaron Copland

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rostasi

Do you approach life from a "purely technical standpoint?"

Psy-Fi

^ My thoughts, as well.

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