MB Classics: John Coltrane - Sun Ship

OccultHawk · 01-20-2018, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maajo

This album is a mess, it's all over the place, but it's great and I love it. It's very avant garde, so I can see why some people would hate this because it's similar to Trout Mask Replica where it's just bat**** crazy and it doesn't seem to follow any patterns really. I like when music does that.

I know I’ve kind of been a dick talking to you about music so I’m not wearing my dickhead here. Coltrane’s playing is actually obsessively about very complicated patterns. It’s a lot like organic patterns in nature. He takes a theme and reworks it in a very systematic way.

This isn’t like the Daydream Nation conversation where I was just needling at you for no reason. I'm not just contradicting you on purpose. It just caught my eye when you mentioned patterns.

I’m not voting in this poll because I won’t partake in a poll that accepts less than the highest possible rating for Coltrane’s music.

OccultHawk · 01-20-2018, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

A short excerpt of Elvin Jones explaining his style. It might add a tiny insight to his style of drumming, maybe it will help to understand and enjoy album a little bit more.
Elvin Jones Drum Solo Demonstration

Great clip

beautiful to hear his voice

greatest drummer ever

rubber soul · 01-21-2018, 04:12 AM

Geez, Occult. Even the Beatles weren't perfect.

Oh, well, it will probably be a classic anyway

~~MicShazam~~ · 01-21-2018, 05:49 AM

After the first two tracks, I can see that I don't want to bother with the rest of this album. It would be unfair to vote, and I won't.

Trollheart · 01-21-2018, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

I know I’ve kind of been a dick talking to you about music so I’m not wearing my dickhead here. Coltrane’s playing is actually obsessively about very complicated patterns. It’s a lot like organic patterns in nature. He takes a theme and reworks it in a very systematic way.

This isn’t like the Daydream Nation conversation where I was just needling at you for no reason. I'm not just contradicting you on purpose. It just caught my eye when you mentioned patterns.

I’m not voting in this poll because I won’t partake in a poll that accepts less than the highest possible rating for Coltrane’s music.

You're worse than those jerks on Ebay: "Five star rating only! Five star rating only!"

OccultHawk · 01-21-2018, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rubber soul

Geez, Occult. Even the Beatles weren't perfect.

Oh, well, it will probably be a classic anyway

His music means a lot to me. It might sound childish when I explain it but it has shown me something enlightening. It has taken me somewhere I didn’t think existed. Even further than LSD and much better because it’s so much more enriching long term and unlike an acid trip Coltrane’s music can be taken apart and understood. Maybe it’s silly to treat it like it’s sacred but it fills that role in my life. I know it’s only sound vibrations but I think it triggers the god button in my brain.

**Frownland** · 01-21-2018, 08:33 AM

I feel the same way tbh.

~~MicShazam~~ · 01-21-2018, 08:50 AM

I've got that with some other artists but I'll avoid ridicule by not saying which.

Some music has just grown to be immensely important to me and become a part of the fabric of my life to the degree where it's hard to imagine life without.

If I'm ever to appreciate Coltrane, it would have to be his best foot forward. More likely, I'll need to get into some other jazz first.

Trollheart · 01-21-2018, 11:34 AM

The point I'm trying to make is that I may be into [insert artist here] and think they're the greatest thing ever, but even I would know there would be people who would not appreciate iah, and I would accept that. To say you only accept top ratings for anyone's album, no matter who they are, is, to be fair, and honest, musical snobbery. How do you know how other people feel, especially those not into jazz?

Mind you, I should point out that I have not yet listened to this; I may, but some of the reviews have warned me that it will not be something I would personally like. I did hear a few Coltrane tracks and liked them, but within anyone's discography has to be the potential for some albums that will not necessarily appeal to everyone.

**Frownland** · 01-21-2018, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

The point I'm trying to make is that I may be into [insert artist here] and think they're the greatest thing ever, but even I would know there would be people who would not appreciate iah, and I would accept that. To say you only accept top ratings for anyone's album, no matter who they are, is, to be fair, and honest, musical snobbery. How do you know how other people feel, especially those not into jazz?

Those people can go get ****ed if they're going to dismiss an album like this for not being pop music or directly aligning with their tastes. You could write a thesis on why this album is absolutely perfect both from a musical theory standpoint and from the viewpoint of an uninformed listener. This isn't just an album with a song that people like from the radio, this album is a goddamn musical revolution.

Quote:

Mind you, I should point out that I have not yet listened to this; I may, but some of the reviews have warned me that it will not be something I would personally like. I did hear a few Coltrane tracks and liked them, but within anyone's discography has to be the potential for some albums that will not necessarily appeal to everyone.

Coltrane has dips in his discography but this album is certainly not it. Appealing to everyone is a ****ty goal anyways, I'll gladly inform people not into it that they're wrong.

View Poll Results: Rate it!
10	3	33.33%
9	3	33.33%
8	1	11.11%
7	0	0%
6	1	11.11%
5	0	0%
4	0	0%
3	0	0%
2	1	11.11%
1	0	0%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

01-21-2018, 08:33 AM	#37 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	I feel the same way tbh. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

01-21-2018, 11:34 AM	#39 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,994	The point I'm trying to make is that I may be into [insert artist here] and think they're the greatest thing ever, but even I would know there would be people who would not appreciate iah, and I would accept that. To say you only accept top ratings for anyone's album, no matter who they are, is, to be fair, and honest, musical snobbery. How do you know how other people feel, especially those not into jazz? Mind you, I should point out that I have not yet listened to this; I may, but some of the reviews have warned me that it will not be something I would personally like. I did hear a few Coltrane tracks and liked them, but within anyone's discography has to be the potential for some albums that will not necessarily appeal to everyone. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

01-21-2018, 05:49 AM	#34 (permalink)
~~MicShazam~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Aalborg Posts: 7,634	After the first two tracks, I can see that I don't want to bother with the rest of this album. It would be unfair to vote, and I won't.

01-21-2018, 08:50 AM	#38 (permalink)
~~MicShazam~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Aalborg Posts: 7,634	I've got that with some other artists but I'll avoid ridicule by not saying which. Some music has just grown to be immensely important to me and become a part of the fabric of my life to the degree where it's hard to imagine life without. If I'm ever to appreciate Coltrane, it would have to be his best foot forward. More likely, I'll need to get into some other jazz first.