Let The Batlord Get You into ICP

Lucem Ferre · 06-28-2017, 01:16 AM

Actually, I take that back. Twiztid fans are usually corny goofball meth addicts too.

The Batlord · 06-28-2017, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

I don't think they do what Twiztid does or I'd listen to them. Every once in a while they make something that I find good but doesn't hit nearly as hard as Twiztid. It's ironic to support ICP and say Twiztid make white trash anthems. Their both white trash, just one makes respectable songs while the other makes dick jokes and christian pop for corny goofballs and meth addicts.

I already said they both basically do the same cathartic ****, but that ICP make it far more colorful and entertaining. Twiztid might be a bit more "respectable" comparatively (emphasis on "comparatively"), but they're still hilariously inept at communicating emotion to anyone but their isolated fanbase. Which one is the more "respectable" is irrelevant, cause they're both laughable.

If I'm going to listen to embarrassing **** then I'd rather listen to something that doesn't just sound like a moderately good version of what 50 million other rappers are doing. Nobody was ever doing what ICP was doing, from Ringmaster to Hell's Pit, what ICP were doing. Ringmaster and Riddle Box might have had some serious Esham going on, but even then those albums were singular, even compared to each other.

Which would obviously mean nothing if ICP didn't connect with me so hard and Twiztid not so much, but ICP were definitely infinitely more creative than Twiztid.

Lucem Ferre · 06-28-2017, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I already said they both basically do the same cathartic ****, but that ICP make it far more colorful and entertaining. Twiztid might be a bit more "respectable" comparatively (emphasis on "comparatively"), but they're still hilariously inept at communicating emotion to anyone but their isolated fanbase. Which one is the more "respectable" is irrelevant, cause they're both laughable.

If I'm going to listen to embarrassing **** then I'd rather listen to something that doesn't just sound like a moderately good version of what 50 million other rappers are doing. Nobody was ever doing what ICP was doing, from Ringmaster to Hell's Pit, what ICP were doing. Ringmaster and Riddle Box might have had some serious Esham going on, but even then those albums were singular, even compared to each other.

Which would obviously mean nothing if ICP didn't connect with me so hard and Twiztid not so much, but ICP were definitely infinitely more creative than Twiztid.

No they don't. ICP are hardly cathartic. And I don't find them entertaining. They are more goofy. That's it. More goofy, stupider lyrics, less lyrical. You could say they are creative, like you could say a retards crayon scribbles are creative because there is nothing out there like it, but yet they ripped their whole career from Esham and still aren't creative enough to stay out of the Dr. Seuss single syllable rhyme scheme. Twiztid may be a bit more predictable but they are much more eloquent with what they say. They are far above mediocre. That's why they pulled the Royce Da 5'9" collab and the Proof collab while ICP didn't. And I guess they were going to have a Duran Duran collab. I think they resonate more with outside audiences than you give them credit for. Most people won't give them a chance because of their association with ICP, so typically they don't reach beyond the juggalos, but they can and have. Their focused projects have much more creativity and heart than ICP's 50 million preachy songs about killing bigots. And yeah, it's for sad sacks. So what? I'd take Twiztid's ****ty new album over ICP's ****ty double album that is just them rehashing this heaven and hell concept for the 4th time.

The Batlord · 06-28-2017, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

No they don't. ICP are hardly cathartic. And I don't find them entertaining. They are more goofy. That's it. More goofy, stupider lyrics, less lyrical. You could say they are creative, like you could say a retards crayon scribbles are creative because there is nothing out there like it, but yet they ripped their whole career from Esham and still aren't creative enough to stay out of the Dr. Seuss single syllable rhyme scheme. Twiztid may be a bit more predictable but they are much more eloquent with what they say. They are far above mediocre. That's why they pulled the Royce Da 5'9" collab and the Proof collab while ICP didn't. And I guess they were going to have a Duran Duran collab. I think they resonate more with outside audiences than you give them credit for. Most people won't give them a chance because of their association with ICP, so typically they don't reach beyond the juggalos, but they can and have. Their focused projects have much more creativity and heart than ICP's 50 million preachy songs about killing bigots. And yeah, it's for sad sacks. So what? I'd take Twiztid's ****ty new album over ICP's ****ty double album that is just them rehashing this heaven and hell concept for the 4th time.

If you just think they're goofy then I guess you have a limited appreciation for what they do, which is OK, nobody's perfect. But I mean, they're not as creative? Come on. From Beverly Kills, to Ringmaster, to Riddle Box, to Milenko, to Jekyll Brothers, to Shangri-La, to Hell's Pit, and even Violent J's first solo record, they were one of the most innovative and original hip hop groups of all time, just not the most accomplished. If you only judge hip hop by its lyrics then I guess it would make sense to not realize it (although their lyrics are also highly creative if you judge them by content and not poetic competence) but I imagine you're just looking at it from the same backpacker viewpoint you've been criticizing.

And I'm not even going to try defending ICP's new albums. I have love for Bang, Pow, Boom, since it was the album that introduced me to all of this, but they really could have quit after Hell's Pit. They don't really have anything more to contribute besides rehashing Shangri-La at this point.

Lucem Ferre · 06-28-2017, 02:44 AM

Oh wow, they made fifty songs about being psychotic clowns that kill bigots in the name of god. So creative.

I'm not looking at it from a back packer view point. The rehash song topics like every rapper does. They don't do it much differently on different albums. The whole disappointment of ICP is that they had this gimmick that allowed them to create commentary on social and political issues in a creative way yet they were never creative or smart enough to flesh that out. Because that's what they were going for in the beginning when they were just a bunch of Esham rip offs like every other rapper. Their commentary never became anything more than some adolescent whining about life being unfair and half assed versions of what every rapper was saying at the time. Most of their creativity came from their producer, Mike Clark. And yeah, in the beginning it was new. Not at all the most creative **** coming out at the time in hip hop though. They were just riding mainstream trends through out the whole thing. At first they tried to be gangster rap because that was what's cool. Then they rode the numetal wave when that got big in the late 90s. I had appreciation for what they tried to be. I still every once in a rare while will listen to older ****. The other day I threw on Ringmaster, used to love that album. Disappointed, it didn't live up to the hype of nostalgia. Very cringey. With a few exceptions. When they connect they can hit pretty hard, but a lot of times moments are ruined with some terrible ass lyric. I was immature when I got into them, and they never matured with me like Twiztid did. But they are definitely goofy. They know they are goofy and they own it. They use the whole "we're clowns" thing to explain all the goofy **** they say. I thought that's why you liked them. Their light hearted foolery while Twiztid are too depressed or some****.

Edit: And like, when I got into their music I was like 12. They both made immature angsty music and I was immature and angsty. I grew up. I hardly listen to older **** from either. Because I'm not an angsty kid anymore. I'm an angsty young adult. And Twiztid grew up too and matured and started making more refined and mature and relate able ****. ICP became a bad parody of themselves.

Lucem Ferre · 06-28-2017, 02:52 AM

Also, from a backpacker view point, they are much better now than they were back in the day. But I don't like much at all of their newer **** compared to back in the day.

The Batlord · 06-28-2017, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

Oh wow, they made fifty songs about being psychotic clowns that kill bigots in the name of god. So creative.

I'm not looking at it from a back packer view point. The rehash song topics like every rapper does. They don't do it much differently on different albums. The whole disappointment of ICP is that they had this gimmick that allowed them to create commentary on social and political issues in a creative way yet they were never creative or smart enough to flesh that out. Because that's what they were going for in the beginning when they were just a bunch of Esham rip offs like every other rapper. Their commentary never became anything more than some adolescent whining about life being unfair and half assed versions of what every rapper was saying at the time. Most of their creativity came from their producer, Mike Clark. And yeah, in the beginning it was new. Not at all the most creative **** coming out at the time in hip hop though. They were just riding mainstream trends through out the whole thing. At first they tried to be gangster rap because that was what's cool. Then they rode the numetal wave when that got big in the late 90s. I had appreciation for what they tried to be. I still every once in a rare while will listen to older ****. The other day I threw on Ringmaster, used to love that album. Disappointed, it didn't live up to the hype of nostalgia. Very cringey. With a few exceptions. When they connect they can hit pretty hard, but a lot of times moments are ruined with some terrible ass lyric. I was immature when I got into them, and they never matured with me like Twiztid did. But they are definitely goofy. They know they are goofy and they own it. They use the whole "we're clowns" thing to explain all the goofy **** they say. I thought that's why you liked them. Their light hearted foolery while Twiztid are too depressed or some****.

I like a lot of **** about ICP. Their early, self-aware non-seriousness is highly charming combined with their bizarre, psychedelic lyrics (for lack of a better term I guess). Their musical styles that, yes, rode current trends, created unique sounds with every album that made each one unique, necessary, and better than the genres they borrowed from, even when the albums weren't even actually that great (like Shangri-La], and by far Carnival of Carnage). And I don't really like that they used so many guitar beats from Jekyll Brothers and on, which dumbed down the textures of their production (and yeah, Mike E. Clark was obviously the most traditionally skilled musician in the group, and is also something that makes them superior to Twiztid).

The amount you talk about lyrics in regard to ICP makes me think that you simply aren't on the proper wavelength to appreciate them. They have a lot of highly visual imagery, beyond violence and testicles, that isn't at all accomplished, but succeeds at a basic level. But that's only part of the point. ICP have a lot of underrated lyrics afaic, but they really shine on an all around musical level. Hip hop isn't just bars. It's music just the same as any other, and can flourish on many levels even while failing on more traditionally hailed metrics.

The Batlord · 06-28-2017, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

Also, from a backpacker view point, they are much better now than they were back in the day. But I don't like much at all of their newer **** compared to back in the day.

Vastly agreed. But can you honestly say you have no love for Hell's Pit?

Lucem Ferre · 06-28-2017, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I like a lot of **** about ICP. Their early, self-aware non-seriousness is highly charming combined with their bizarre, psychedelic lyrics (for lack of a better term I guess). Their musical styles that, yes, rode current trends, created unique sounds with every album that made each one unique, necessary, and better than the genres they borrowed from, even when the albums weren't even actually that great (like Shangri-La], and by far Carnival of Carnage). And I don't really like that they used so many guitar beats from Jekyll Brothers and on, which dumbed down the textures of their production (and yeah, Mike E. Clark was obviously the most traditionally skilled musician in the group, and is also something that makes them superior to Twiztid).

The amount you talk about lyrics in regard to ICP makes me think that you simply aren't on the proper wavelength to appreciate them. They have a lot of highly visual imagery, beyond violence and testicles, that isn't at all accomplished, but succeeds at a basic level. But that's only part of the point. ICP have a lot of underrated lyrics afaic, but they really shine on an all around musical level. Hip hop isn't just bars. It's music just the same as any other, and can flourish on many levels even while failing on more traditionally hailed metrics.

You liked them because they were goofy. Just say it. And sadly half the time the aren't aware of it. I don't think the styles they borrowed from were better than the actually genres. Especially with newer **** and them jumping on the edm rap bandwagon. I don't think they are better for having Mike Clark though I do think Mike Clark is better than Fritz hands down. Fritz had his moment on Freek Show, but ****ing sucks now. And I think a lot of Green Books production wasn't so good.

Dude, I guarantee I've heard more from ICP than you. I know what they have to offer. Like I said, every once in a while they have a good song. But it's not something that connects to me anymore. I feel there are plenty of artists that do what they do but better. With out the goofy antics that keep you entertained but I don't want to hear. Yeah, they are a lot more talented in other aspects than a lot give them credit for, but they say stupid ****. It's not how technical it is. It's that I don't want to hear the stupid goofy **** that they say. I feel the same way about a lot of the genre.

It's like, ICP are these B list slasher flicks. Where a lot of what people enjoy from them is the cheesey campy fun bit of the films. While I may enjoy one of those every once in a while, I prefer horror films like Babadook. And Twiztid are Candyman. Somewhere in between but a good mix I can get behind. Analogy made sense to me.

Lucem Ferre · 06-28-2017, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Vastly agreed. But can you honestly say you have no love for Hell's Pit?

It has it's moments I still go back to. I think the one where he keeps shooting angels out of the sky to find the person he loved was a great example of ICP at their best for me.