Show Biz Kids.....

**Frownland** · 06-12-2017, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Yeah but the point being made here, kind of the point of the thread, is if you get rich and famous - and you only get that way if people buy your stuff, let's be honest - don't moan about it and start being a prick. Any musician can jam or record for hours or days and get great stuff he or she never uses, just likes for itself, and that's fine. But when it gets to commercial success, remember how you got there and who put you there. That's the point.

That's a step away from having to bend to the will of your fans even if you don't enjoy it. That's the point I'm making here.

OccultHawk · 06-12-2017, 04:41 PM

It's up to the musician. I saw Bob Dylan and he played really dorky rockabilly versions of every song he played. I've had a few more chances to see him again and passed. Obviously, he doesn't need my business. But like anything else, if I'm unhappy with the experience I'm not likely to return. Some musicians don't care. Some are good enough not to care. Some are worse because they do care. As a fan, I don't really feel like I'm imposing my will on anyone. From a starting point, they play music for money. It's going to be a long time before I care about professional musicians as people who suffer because of their jobs. I doubt the garbage man is really deeply inclined to collect my trash and my heart actually goes out to him. I try to put out the garbage so it's easy for them to get to. Am I concerned for Roger Waters that his fans are clapping to Fat Old Sun? Uh, no. Nor did I feel bad for Gira. I'm a fan. From where I sit these people are living a dream life.

Trollheart · 06-12-2017, 06:13 PM

Then you have Van Morrison, who often plays with his back to the audience. I think this is a really ignorant thing to do, but whatever. If I pay the - increasingly exorbitant - price of a ticket though, I'm not going to be told by the artist what I can and can't do at his/her/their gig. I paid. **** you if you don't like it. I'm paying, in part, for the lavish lifestyle you're (probably) leading, and I will never lead that life, so let me enjoy myself.

I don't get where it's "imposing your will on the artist", Frown: if the tickets carried a warning NO SINGING, DANCING, CLAPPING OR WHISTLING then maybe it might be like NO CAMERAS OR RECORDING DEVICES: you've been warned. But to turn around in the middle of a performance that I have paid to get into, and tell me I can't bloody clap or whistle? **** that.

Trollheart · 06-12-2017, 06:28 PM

Just want to drop this in here, to compliment Lisna on a pretty excellent and original thread, by a guy who tends not to make many. But when he does, they're usually winners.

**Frownland** · 06-12-2017, 07:43 PM

Never said it wasnt douchey. I still think its an entitled way to look at concerts.

OccultHawk · 06-12-2017, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Never said it wasnt douchey. I still think its an entitled way to look at concerts.

For the fan or the artist?

**Frownland** · 06-12-2017, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

For the fan or the artist?

Yes.

Trollheart · 06-13-2017, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

nah this crosses the line into treating artists as dancing monkeys

probably the reason they're even worth seeing is that they aint nobodies bitch

I like what Mark E Smith said about the back turning thing basically "I'm just not particularly interested in the audience"

As opposed to treating the fans as walking ATMs? Cuts both ways dude: give your fans a modicum of respect and you'll get it back. Treat them like **** and you may lose some, or all of them.

And I don't care what way you cut it: not facing your audience is ignorant. I wonder would Mark E wotsit be "particularly interested" in refunding all the money these fans have spent on his music, huh? The air must be pretty rareified up there on his high horse. If he's not interested in them, why the **** is he playing live?

**Frownland** · 06-13-2017, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

As opposed to treating the fans as walking ATMs?

This isn't really different from treating the fans as your boss from where I'm sitting.

Quote:

Cuts both ways dude: give your fans a modicum of respect and you'll get it back. Treat them like **** and you may lose some, or all of them.

Most definitely.

Quote:

And I don't care what way you cut it: not facing your audience is ignorant. I wonder would Mark E wotsit be "particularly interested" in refunding all the money these fans have spent on his music, huh? The air must be pretty rareified up there on his high horse. If he's not interested in them, why the **** is he playing live?

They paid to see him play. They saw him play. No refund, bitches. Should've come to the show with less expectations.

Trollheart · 06-13-2017, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I don't really see myself as a customer of the band and them the provider of a service

don't reduce this thing to a business transaction

I paid to see an artist make art and this is one of the few realms in Capitalist society where someone is not directly beholden to some master

at the same time an artist that complains about their fans all the time is just as much a whiny bitch

Sorry but that's just bollox. The price of tickets these days, the least I should be able to expect is to see the guy's face and have some interaction with him. I don't want to be staring at his arse for an hour!
Now Kylie, well, that's a different matter...

Of course it's a business transaction. What else can it be? The artist produces a product that is then consumed by his or her fans. A novellist does the same, a film star, anyone else. It's basic. Unless it's a free concert, in which case fine. But the back-turning thing is only part of it: mostly, don't try to tell me how to behave at your concert. Do I tell YOU not to make us all sing "Hey-hey-oh!" or whatever, or slow clap a ****ing drum solo? I paid for the right to enjoy myself, and as long as it's legal, I'm gonna do it. Clap, whistle, jump up and down, sing every lyric, dance, whatever.

06-12-2017, 06:13 PM	#23 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,992	Then you have Van Morrison, who often plays with his back to the audience. I think this is a really ignorant thing to do, but whatever. If I pay the - increasingly exorbitant - price of a ticket though, I'm not going to be told by the artist what I can and can't do at his/her/their gig. I paid. ** you if you don't like it. I'm paying, in part, for the lavish lifestyle you're (probably) leading, and I will never lead that life, so let me enjoy myself. I don't get where it's "imposing your will on the artist", Frown: if the tickets carried a warning NO SINGING, DANCING, CLAPPING OR WHISTLING then maybe it might be like NO CAMERAS OR RECORDING DEVICES: you've been warned. But to turn around in the middle of a performance that I have paid to get into, and tell me I can't bloody clap or whistle? ** that. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

06-12-2017, 06:28 PM	#24 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,992	Just want to drop this in here, to compliment Lisna on a pretty excellent and original thread, by a guy who tends not to make many. But when he does, they're usually winners. __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

06-12-2017, 07:43 PM	#25 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Never said it wasnt douchey. I still think its an entitled way to look at concerts. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

06-12-2017, 04:41 PM	#22 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	It's up to the musician. I saw Bob Dylan and he played really dorky rockabilly versions of every song he played. I've had a few more chances to see him again and passed. Obviously, he doesn't need my business. But like anything else, if I'm unhappy with the experience I'm not likely to return. Some musicians don't care. Some are good enough not to care. Some are worse because they do care. As a fan, I don't really feel like I'm imposing my will on anyone. From a starting point, they play music for money. It's going to be a long time before I care about professional musicians as people who suffer because of their jobs. I doubt the garbage man is really deeply inclined to collect my trash and my heart actually goes out to him. I try to put out the garbage so it's easy for them to get to. Am I concerned for Roger Waters that his fans are clapping to Fat Old Sun? Uh, no. Nor did I feel bad for Gira. I'm a fan. From where I sit these people are living a dream life.