Debate: Is music a universal language?

StanLeakup · 04-18-2016, 02:38 AM

Hello all. I would like to get your opinion on the question: Is Music a Universal Language? Here is some quick background info: I am an econ major at school and taking a music class for GE Credit. This question was a true/false question on one of my exams for school, but it almost seems to me like a trick question. I am going to make the case to my professor that music is a universal language, he is trying to say that music is NOT a universal language. It may very well not be, but I believe this question is just so vague/badly worded that I think I can make a good case. Do you think Music is a Universal Language? How do you define "universal" and "language"?

Blan · 04-18-2016, 03:13 AM

Interesting question... seems like the kind of question that should be graded based on the quality of the answer rather than whether you answer true or false, for the reason's you've already stated.

If Universal means all humans, than you could probably argue yes (with the exception of the hearing impaired I guess, though Beethoven was deaf for some time, and could read and write music... ). If by universal you would include non-humans, than that makes it even less conculsive, but makes the question more "can a universal language exist".

As for what constitutes language... the obvious criteria would be whether communication is occurring... by that we might suppose we're talking about communication of ideas and/or concepts. That could play either way... most of us can hear a piece of instrumental music and independently interpret it to mean similar things ie. this music is cheerful... or this music is sad.... at the same time, some music might be much more contextual... what one person/culture might interpret as being celebratory, another person/culture might hear as threatening or aggressive. So as a means of communication instrumentally (independent of the aid of spoken language in the form of lyrics) I think that music fails the test of communication. It's also inconclusive whether music can be understood universally, or whether a lot of it is learned context for the meaning of certain kinds of scales/tempos/dynamics.... in contrast to facial expressions for example, which have been shown to be hardwired and universally understood by humans.

That said... Noam Chomsky... who is a linguist first and foremost... has a theory of the development of language that says that language isn't developed to communicate with other people, but is a left over evolutionary product that has more to do with how we think... it's tied into the way that we process information... for example the fact that we have to learn to read out loud, before we can learn to read silently.

If you want to make an argument for music as a universal language I think you would do well to look up Noam Chomsky's works on linguistics related to evolution of language, and make that a part of your argument, in order to counter the idea that language is primarily about communication... a criteria that is harder to defend in the case of music.

bob_32_116 · 04-18-2016, 08:42 AM

"Music is a universal language" is a cliche that I think is not really true.

Certainly it's true that all cultures apparently share enjoyment of music, and moreover that cultures appear able to enjoy music that originates from other cultures; therefore in that sense it is universal. A "language" though? If so, it's a very rudimentary language. Most people seem to agree on whether a particular piece of music sounds joyful, sad, angry or indifferent, so to that extent it can convey emotion, but that's about as far as it goes. You can't even tell someone via music something as simple as "I have a red pencil box", not unless it's a song with lyrics, and then it's the language of the lyrics that is conveying the information. Importantly, even the examples I gave above of emotion in music are only like statements in a language such as "I am sad"; I can think of no way a fragment of music could be used to frame a question for someone else to answer, not even something as elementary as "Are you happy?", and being able to ask questions would seem to be a primary requirement for a true language.

SuperSymmetry · 04-18-2016, 10:01 AM

I doubt it's true. I don't have any sources for this, but emotional expression through music is pretty culturally dependent. And if even that can be confounded by culture, then it's very unlikely that music as a whole can be said to be universal.

Although in your defense, that was a pretty vague question.

The Batlord · 04-18-2016, 10:43 AM

Of course it is. Why just last week I was abducted by aliens, and after the usual anal play they tried some pillow talk, but we just didn't speak the same language. Then some sci-fi speaker dropped out of the ceiling, started playing this, and it was all sweet nothings and take me to your leader...

Spoiler for The language of love...:

SuperSymmetry · 04-18-2016, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Of course it is. Why just last week I was abducted by aliens, and after the usual anal play they tried some pillow talk, but we just didn't speak the same language. Then some sci-fi speaker dropped out of the ceiling, started playing this, and it was all sweet nothings and take me to your leader...

Spoiler for The language of love...:

You got it good. The aliens that abduct me just leave me in waterlogged ditches on the other side of the country.

They don't even call back.

Paul Smeenus · 04-18-2016, 08:28 PM

No.

The Batlord · 04-18-2016, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperSymmetry

You got it good. The aliens that abduct me just leave me in waterlogged ditches on the other side of the country.

They don't even call back.

There are two types of people on this earth: classy bitches, and trashy bitches. I guess we know which one you are.

DeadChannel · 04-18-2016, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blan

Interesting question... seems like the kind of question that should be graded based on the quality of the answer rather than whether you answer true or false, for the reason's you've already stated.

If Universal means all humans, than you could probably argue yes (with the exception of the hearing impaired I guess, though Beethoven was deaf for some time, and could read and write music... ). If by universal you would include non-humans, than that makes it even less conculsive, but makes the question more "can a universal language exist".

As for what constitutes language... the obvious criteria would be whether communication is occurring... by that we might suppose we're talking about communication of ideas and/or concepts. That could play either way... most of us can hear a piece of instrumental music and independently interpret it to mean similar things ie. this music is cheerful... or this music is sad.... at the same time, some music might be much more contextual... what one person/culture might interpret as being celebratory, another person/culture might hear as threatening or aggressive. So as a means of communication instrumentally (independent of the aid of spoken language in the form of lyrics) I think that music fails the test of communication. It's also inconclusive whether music can be understood universally, or whether a lot of it is learned context for the meaning of certain kinds of scales/tempos/dynamics.... in contrast to facial expressions for example, which have been shown to be hardwired and universally understood by humans.

That said... Noam Chomsky... who is a linguist first and foremost... has a theory of the development of language that says that language isn't developed to communicate with other people, but is a left over evolutionary product that has more to do with how we think... it's tied into the way that we process information... for example the fact that we have to learn to read out loud, before we can learn to read silently.

If you want to make an argument for music as a universal language I think you would do well to look up Noam Chomsky's works on linguistics related to evolution of language, and make that a part of your argument, in order to counter the idea that language is primarily about communication... a criteria that is harder to defend in the case of music.

+1 for The Chom.

bob_32_116 · 04-30-2016, 10:52 PM

I think the saying "music is a universal language" was originally coined to mean that music is something that everyone can appreciate, rather than literally suggesting that it is like a spoken or written language, in much the same way people talk about love as a universal language. All cultures understand the concept of love, but it's rather difficult to see how you would use love to say "May I borrow a cup of sugar?".

04-18-2016, 02:38 AM	#1 (permalink)
StanLeakup Groupie Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 1	Debate: Is music a universal language? Hello all. I would like to get your opinion on the question: Is Music a Universal Language? Here is some quick background info: I am an econ major at school and taking a music class for GE Credit. This question was a true/false question on one of my exams for school, but it almost seems to me like a trick question. I am going to make the case to my professor that music is a universal language, he is trying to say that music is NOT a universal language. It may very well not be, but I believe this question is just so vague/badly worded that I think I can make a good case. Do you think Music is a Universal Language? How do you define "universal" and "language"?

04-18-2016, 03:13 AM	#2 (permalink)
Blan Groupie Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 9	Interesting question... seems like the kind of question that should be graded based on the quality of the answer rather than whether you answer true or false, for the reason's you've already stated. If Universal means all humans, than you could probably argue yes (with the exception of the hearing impaired I guess, though Beethoven was deaf for some time, and could read and write music... ). If by universal you would include non-humans, than that makes it even less conculsive, but makes the question more "can a universal language exist". As for what constitutes language... the obvious criteria would be whether communication is occurring... by that we might suppose we're talking about communication of ideas and/or concepts. That could play either way... most of us can hear a piece of instrumental music and independently interpret it to mean similar things ie. this music is cheerful... or this music is sad.... at the same time, some music might be much more contextual... what one person/culture might interpret as being celebratory, another person/culture might hear as threatening or aggressive. So as a means of communication instrumentally (independent of the aid of spoken language in the form of lyrics) I think that music fails the test of communication. It's also inconclusive whether music can be understood universally, or whether a lot of it is learned context for the meaning of certain kinds of scales/tempos/dynamics.... in contrast to facial expressions for example, which have been shown to be hardwired and universally understood by humans. That said... Noam Chomsky... who is a linguist first and foremost... has a theory of the development of language that says that language isn't developed to communicate with other people, but is a left over evolutionary product that has more to do with how we think... it's tied into the way that we process information... for example the fact that we have to learn to read out loud, before we can learn to read silently. If you want to make an argument for music as a universal language I think you would do well to look up Noam Chomsky's works on linguistics related to evolution of language, and make that a part of your argument, in order to counter the idea that language is primarily about communication... a criteria that is harder to defend in the case of music. Last edited by Blan; 04-18-2016 at 11:02 AM.

04-18-2016, 08:42 AM	#3 (permalink)
bob_32_116 Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: 32S 116E Posts: 324	"Music is a universal language" is a cliche that I think is not really true. Certainly it's true that all cultures apparently share enjoyment of music, and moreover that cultures appear able to enjoy music that originates from other cultures; therefore in that sense it is universal. A "language" though? If so, it's a very rudimentary language. Most people seem to agree on whether a particular piece of music sounds joyful, sad, angry or indifferent, so to that extent it can convey emotion, but that's about as far as it goes. You can't even tell someone via music something as simple as "I have a red pencil box", not unless it's a song with lyrics, and then it's the language of the lyrics that is conveying the information. Importantly, even the examples I gave above of emotion in music are only like statements in a language such as "I am sad"; I can think of no way a fragment of music could be used to frame a question for someone else to answer, not even something as elementary as "Are you happy?", and being able to ask questions would seem to be a primary requirement for a true language.

04-18-2016, 10:01 AM	#4 (permalink)
SuperSymmetry Groupie Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 45	I doubt it's true. I don't have any sources for this, but emotional expression through music is pretty culturally dependent. And if even that can be confounded by culture, then it's very unlikely that music as a whole can be said to be universal. Although in your defense, that was a pretty vague question.

04-30-2016, 10:52 PM	#10 (permalink)
bob_32_116 Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: 32S 116E Posts: 324	I think the saying "music is a universal language" was originally coined to mean that music is something that everyone can appreciate, rather than literally suggesting that it is like a spoken or written language, in much the same way people talk about love as a universal language. All cultures understand the concept of love, but it's rather difficult to see how you would use love to say "May I borrow a cup of sugar?".