Talent

grindy · 01-09-2016, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicShazam

I think that one important thing is often forgotten, especially in, errh... geekier circles (the metal community, the prog community, this community), namely the importance of playing with feel.

Go to a really good, respected, cello teacher for instance. Then learn to play super difficult pieces fast, precise and without flaw. Most likely, the teacher will tell you that you are terrible and need more practice. This is because playing with feel is just as important as technical skill. It's 50%/50%, but most prog/metal supposed "virtuosos" have very little skill in the expressive part of that equation.

Basically, I'm saying that in my mind, most highly regarded prog/metal "gods" are of neglible talent in my eyes.

This goes for singers as well. Hell, just to be a bastard and push the issue a bit more, I'll divulge that I think Opeth is a mediocre band because they play like sleepy robots. At least pre- Heritage.

Isn't 'playing with feel' a technical skill as well? It's about controlling subtle nuances of the sound after all.
As for shredders and such, I think they just aim for different aesthetics.

~~MicShazam~~ · 01-09-2016, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

Isn't 'playing with feel' a technical skill as well? It's about controlling subtle nuances of the sound after all.
As for shredders and such, I think they just aim for a different aesthetic.

"Isn't 'playing with feel' a technical skill as well? It's about controlling subtle nuances of the sound after all."

It's semantics, but yes, I can agree on that. This would still mean that missing that part is having half the required skillset in my eyes. Maybe even the most important part.

"As for shredders and such, I think they just aim for a different aesthetic."
I've sometimes wondered about this. Do they play soullessly because they actively choose to, or do they just not experience that particular facet of the music and, hence, feel no need to play with feeling. I know not everyone prioritizes this thing as highly as I do, but to me it is absolutely necessary for music to be good, that it is played with feeling. Which is admittedly a hard thing to define.

grindy · 01-09-2016, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicShazam

"Isn't 'playing with feel' a technical skill as well? It's about controlling subtle nuances of the sound after all."

It's semantics, but yes, I can agree on that. This would still mean that missing that part is having half the required skillset in my eyes. Maybe even the most important part.

"As for shredders and such, I think they just aim for a different aesthetic."
I've sometimes wondered about this. Do they play soullessly because they actively choose to, or do they just not experience that facet of the music and, hence, feel no need to play with feeling.

I don't enjoy much conventional shredding, but I do like some music that is so stuffed with notes, that there simply isn't time for the notes to have much nuance.
I wouldn't necessarily say that such music authomatically has no soul and feeling. Such compositions can be quite exhilaratingly beautiful in their overwhelmingness.
As I said, different aesthetics.
I get what you mean though, speed doesn't make a lame composition better.

~~MicShazam~~ · 01-09-2016, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

I don't enjoy much conventional shredding, but I do like some music that is so stuffed with notes, that there simply isn't time for the notes to have much nuance.
I wouldn't necessarily say that such music authomatically has no soul and feeling. Such compositions can be quite exhilaratingly beautiful in their overwhelmingness.
As I said, different aesthetics.

I kind of see what you mean. I quite like the Chthonic album Bu-Tík for instance, and that album is pretty much overbearing wall of sound tactics most of the time. It is beautiful because of how it is composed and due to the sounds chosen to express said composition.

I'd still argue that it could be better if some other band covered the whole album and played it in a less robotic manner, with less sterile production. The guitarist is still very talented in my eyes, though, since he clearly puts his heart into the guitar solos.

I guess what my rambling boils down to is this: I still think talent is also about expression, but not very nuanced music can be good, which is separate from the issue of talent.

So am I saying it doesn't take a lot of talent (after my own definition thereof) to play extreme metal well? I guess so... Please don't hurt me!

Chula Vista · 01-09-2016, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicShazam

"As for shredders and such, I think they just aim for a different aesthetic."
I've sometimes wondered about this. Do they play soullessly because they actively choose to, or do they just not experience that particular facet of the music and, hence, feel no need to play with feeling.

Shred and feeling are not mutually exclusive for ****s sake.

~~MicShazam~~ · 01-09-2016, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

Shred and feeling are not mutually exclusive for ****s sake.

Oh I agree! I'm just generalizing for ease of discussion. I could name a "shredder" style guitarist or two I highly admire. Pier Gonella is probably my fave.

**Janszoon** · 01-09-2016, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

Shred and feeling are not mutually exclusive for ****s sake.

I think they sound their most soulless when they slow it down and try to play with feeling honestly. I've actually been listening to a bunch of this kind of stuff recently (including that Vai album) and I've realized that I like these guys most when they're flying all over the strings. I can get caught up in the cool geometry of that and I think that's emotionally evocative in its own way. When they try to be soulful, not so much.

grindy · 01-09-2016, 03:32 PM

Although I can't get through an album of Animals As Leaders without losing interest, I'd say that the solo starting at 1:10 is another great example of shredding with feeling.

Chula Vista · 01-09-2016, 03:35 PM

Tosin is just on another level. And ya, he puts his heart into that ****.

Trollheart · 01-09-2016, 03:47 PM

Everything this man did was with feeling. Apart from ****ing "Teenage idol".

01-09-2016, 03:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
grindy . Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: . Posts: 7,201	Although I can't get through an album of Animals As Leaders without losing interest, I'd say that the solo starting at 1:10 is another great example of shredding with feeling. __________________ *A smell of petroleum prevails throughout.*

01-09-2016, 03:35 PM	#9 (permalink)
Chula Vista Toasted Poster Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SoCal by way of Boston Posts: 11,332	Tosin is just on another level. And ya, he puts his heart into that ****. __________________ “The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

01-09-2016, 03:47 PM	#10 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,996	Everything this man did was with feeling. Apart from ***ing "Teenage idol". __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018*