CoNtrivedNiHilism

I'm not a Pop fan so not a big surprise that I don't agree with that. Maybe if I actually tried listening to Pop and not go in to it with the mindset that I'm going to be bored by subject matter and sounds raped to the nth degree by these poptarts without an ounce of creativity or vision, I could find something I liked and not care about those things, because those things are what Pop is in my book.

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The Batlord

Start with Madonna.

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CoNtrivedNiHilism

Heard all of those songs already and a handful of others, she's one Pop artist I think is pretty talented and don't turn my nose up to if I hear a song of hers, however when you talk about her new stuff...wtf happened?

Can I just say that I don't think that there's no talent in the Pop industry, because there is and I've heard it, I still hear it now and then these days too. I'm just so tired of Pop artist these days playing it safe, putting out albums they know will sell because it markets a sound that's ridiculously popular, but they're albums that are so contrived or mundane, and that's two big issues for me with Pop in general.

You know those bands I listen to Batty that you detest? I listen to them because I hear things from them that I can appreciate, like honest music, or music that has something to say, rather than music that talks at you because people want to hear a song that is upbeat or bubbly, or talks about nothing really meaningful, and you know I've always had a pet peeve with any song from any nameable genre that really has nothing to say, it's just words with no particular meaning with backing music that's just there to well, be there. I haven't been able to move passed that fact in regard to Pop, the music says nothing to me, how many songs do I have to hear that talks about nail polish, hair, women being empowered, so on and so forth before a Pop artist finally comes along and has things to say and doesn't pander to the popular crowd to play it safe?

Give me someone new, not Ke$ha, that you think I could get in to Batty. I don't care if it's bubbly, materialistic sh*t, just hit me with some Pop recs from this current generation, I've heard a lot of the old stuff already.

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Trollheart

I don't know if this would be considered pop, but I found it really quite excellent. Irish, too!


Also I think we'd most of us agree that Chvrches is some current pop we can all get behind?

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

CoNtrivedNiHilism

I actually didn't mind that, liked her voice, catchy too. I could listen to more like this maybe, if it were varied enough and wasn't just one thing the entire album through.

Chvrches is a group I haven't really heard anything by, I just know who they are. Suppose I'll YouTube them now...

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The Batlord

The video from that last song was from her American Life album, which had the unfortunate luck to be released just before 9/11, so there was a backlash that's pretty much kept her muzzled by her record company ever since, making her just a voice played over dance beats. The album right after that, Confessions on the Dance Floor was pretty awesome, but it didn't have a whole lot of personality from Madonna.

First of all, pop isn't necessarily made better by having something to say, since it's there to be catchy, and not necessarily as an extension of the artist's inner voice. Lady GaGa's first album was just a bunch of songs about her being a vapid party girl, built entirely around club dance beats, but it's still superior to her other two albums. Partially because she doesn't really have anything to say, and is just buying into her own hype at the expense of the simple, dance pop that made her famous.

And two, I'm very pick-and-choose about my modern pop -- not because it's contrived or anything, but a lot of it just isn't as catchy as pop should be -- but...



Don't know why this is listed as a Jessie J song, as it's from Arianne Grande's album.



Great singles, but her albums aren't entirely consistent.







Note: These are all British artists, so I'm thinking that American pop is currently inferior to the sounds from across the pond.

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CoNtrivedNiHilism

Well, Chvrches is something I'm really digging, sort of a retro pop outfit. Nonetheless I'm not finding myself irritated by tried and tired themes or predictability.

Batty. I understand what Pop is meant to look, sound, be portrayed as. I know the subject matter isn't meant to really be something that has a point behind it, lyrically I find that the words are jumbled together in not a random order, but not particularly in any fashion either, they're just there and I'd even call the lyrics a filler to be honest, as the music is the forefront or how it sounds is.

But just because Pop doesn't exist to have something to say, I don't get why a Pop artists wouldn't want to be known for the subject matter of their music being something meaningful, record sales and being relevant just mean more? It boggles my mind, because it's almost something I feel betrays the point of making music to begin with, like as an outlet for your inner voice and to express yourself with, but to be content with what they doing being mundane or vapid, it just goes to show me that maybe they take music for granted. Music is important for me to the point that I feel I'd not even want to be here if it never existed, so when an artists just pumps out music for the f*ck of it, they just want the fame and money, notoriety, it gets my blood boiling because it shows no appreciation or respect for music.

You're not the only one that is picky with music. Contrary to what you think by consequence of the music I have shared thus far here (you've liked a fair amount of it, but there's a lot you detested too) the music I gravitate toward is much more grounded around really actually being good. Beartooth is not an example of the music I actually listen to every day. Take me at my word on that.

In regard to those videos you posted...

The first one, by Neon Hitch, was horrid, sorry. She sang like she was wanting to sound like Britney Spears, or her voice just sounds like that. Either way I didn't like it.

The second one, that Jessie J collaboration, I've heard it over and over at work. It isn't a song I'd say that I hate, but I just don't think it's that good either.

Natalia Kills was probably the best of what you posted. I can't say she is anything special, and frankly none of what you posted sounded much different than Pop in the USA. Very similar or what you posted was a poor representation of Pop from over seas.

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The Batlord

Well, like you and I have already said, you can't judge a genre by the standards you would another genre. I look to metal for great riffs and/or aggression, but I would look for that with an artist like Johnny Cash or Townes Van Zandt.

You may very well already be aware of them, but for melodic metalcore that I actually respect, Unearth is my goto band.




I think you should delve into some pre-00s metalcore, as it's vastly superior to the later bands. A lot different sounding, since it was a movement coming from hardcore and post-hardcore bands rather than metal ones.





Deadguy - Doom Patrol











These are more like proto-metalcore/hardcore bands.

Ringworm - The Sickness


Integrity - Heaven's Final War


I don't mean they're better creatively, just that I find them to be catchier pop songs than anything I'm hearing from American pop artists.

If you want a more creative pop artists, then I'd suggest M.I.A.. She's got a sound somewhere in-between pop, rap, club music, and some kind of bastard combo of tribal beats. Can't really compare her to anything else going on TBH.

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CoNtrivedNiHilism

There's been times that I have judged another genre based on the standards of another I view as superior, but yeah I've said that it shouldn't be done. Frustration toward artists seeming to focus less on creativity or standing out drives my impulse to judge that way.

What I've listened to of pre 00's Metalcore, and I'll be honest that there hasn't been a lot of it and it came out at a time that I wouldn't gravitate all that much toward your more aggressive vocals as well, at one point of my musical evolution, I looked down on bands that had vocalists that screamed or growled throughout an album, because melody is such an important thing for me in the music that I like. Obviously now it isn't so much the case, the whole not liking or favoring vocals like that, because there's Trivium, Lamb of God, August Burns Red, Unearth, Protest The Hero, Paradise Lost, Whitechapel, I listen to all of those bands now and 15 or more years ago I wouldn't have given them the time of day, but I was a lot more ignorant or unaware of how good the music could actually be too.

I listen to Unearth, as mentioned already. I had heard of Poison The Well, heard a song or four from Converge, but I cannot say that I have heard anything from those other bands you posted, but I liked pretty much each of those songs too, especially found myself drawn to Converge, I really liked that imperfect, raw and aggressive sound in that one song posted.

Oh, and M.I.A....

I thought the music was pretty strange, didn't hate it though. I might look more in to her stuff to find if I'd like more of it, certainly isn't typical.

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Frownland

Pretentious Throbbing Gristleheads like myself don't even consider bands like NIN to be industrial music, so maybe you're right on that one if we're going with what's ripping the charts a new one.

However, on folk music, I think that it's too vague of a term to really have a beginning or end. Americana folk music is going to be vastly different from Vietnamese folk music. In a way, you could say that most artists who are clearly passionate about their music make folk music since they are a product of their time whether they like it or not.

Even if you don't take such a liberal definition with folk music, a lot of the alternative music (lol at the genre name btw) have very prominent folk roots from what I've heard (even if the ringleaders suck some serious ass).

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.