Black Francis

No Talking heads? that's the first band i think of when i think of New wave.

I understand the concept of this thread but i don't quite fully agree with it because as Frown pointed out with the internet nowadays making music so accessible all that music from those past musical movements are still keeping that movement alive in a way cause there is always a little sub culture behind it that won't let it die and there's always kids from a new generation that get into it too.

Though you can trace the rise and fall of musical genres through the eyes of mainstream music and through their decades most of those musical movements either evolved into another genre or are being kept alive through music sub cultures which can consist of thousands of ppl.

I have a question for you William.
Which genre of music do you think defines the 2010 decade so far?

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Norg

ever since this thing called the Internet musical genres will never die because they have all been categorized stored and saved : )

CoNtrivedNiHilism

Sometimes I think certain genres like Pop need to just die a miserable death, but then I take that thought back because Pop offers melody galore, among other things. I absolutely loath the majority of Pop music around now, copy cat and so much of it is so contrived...

But I don't think any specific genre will actually cease to exist, I think there will be an audience for pretty much any of it as long as music exists. I do contest to the fact that genres do seem to peek, and then have a significant decline in popularity, but never actually going away. Generations of people being ushered in play part in that, not every generation will favor the same genre the same way as the generation before them.

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Trollheart

As it happens, I have a whole journal dedicated to the history of prog rock and prog metal, so I can do that. I'll come back to you on it.

Sorry to niggle again, but U2 were also never new wave; I think they are about as far from that as could be. They're a simple rock band. Bangles I wouldn't be too sure about but not as much as U2. Not looking for an argument, but I think you got that one wrong...

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Trollheart

Again, not trying to be smart, but do you mean "concede"? Cos otherwise that sentence is very confusing. Or do you mean "I contest", in which case then you're arguing against the claim?

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CoNtrivedNiHilism

Concede.

Because I think there's enough there to support the claim.

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William_the_Bloody

Well I will have to check that out, perhaps I will actually find a prog rock song I like.

Very well then, I tend to lump that whole movement under new wave, but I shall state that they are alternative rock/post punk, that better.

I never stated that they die, but they do enter into a decline where they become a niche genre of music for a smaller fanbase.

The Roman Empire is gone but Italy is still one of the world's most powerful economies today. Jazz doesn't dominate the pop charts & music in general like it did in the 50's but it still has a large following.

Trollheart

I kind of though that was what you meant. Sorry to be picky but I wasn't quite sure and the wording did kind of give the opposite view.
I'm sure you will. It's a pretty varied genre, from Captain Beefheart and Zappa right up to bands like Spock's Beard and Pendragon.
I just remember growing up in Dublin as U2 came on the scene, and they were never really identified with any particular movement or genre, nor I believe identified themselves as one.

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DriveYourCarDownToTheSea

Classical music probably peaked in popularity in the late 1800's-early 1900's, overthrown by jazz in the 20's. In this case it was an extremely long ascent with an extremely long descent, spanning centuries. However, if you divide it into its sub-genres (Renaissance, Baroque, High Classical, Romantic, Modern) there are clear ascents, peaks and descents.

I'd say jazz's peak was probably in the early 50's, especially if you consider swing to be a kind of jazz.

Something not mentioned is that folk music probably peaked in popularity in the early-mid 60's. Like a lot of other genres it was subsumed by another genre (in this case rock, which created the sub-genre "folk-rock"), which more often than not is the beginning of the end of a genre's peak popularity. One could also argue that rap being integrated into other genres in the past 20 years or so is a sign that rap has peaked as well.

I think what we might call "generic pop" is going to be around for a very long time, in part because it's such a broad and flexible genre, and thus, because it has such a broad appeal. I think it's lifeline might end up being like Classical music, with a lifespan measured in centuries.

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Micco

A lot of fans consider Hip-Hop and Rap to be two similar but different types of music, notice how in my previous posts I differentiate between a rapper and an emcee, as a rapper belongs to rap music and the later respective to Hip-Hop. So when speaking on the birth and death of Hip-Hop I'd say it's history is able to be cataloged from start to finish with exceptions as I had said before of the music still coming out in much smaller waves.

As for Rap music I'd say it's currently in it's own golden era or at least it hasn't died yet, to distinguish them in terms of genres it is fairly easy.

Hip-Hop:
-more focused on including many more cultural element's of Hip-Hop within' the music (Emcees, B-Boys, Deejays, Street Artists, Beat Boxing, etc)
-more focused on spreading a message or showing off emceeing prowess

Rap:
-more commercial
-more focused on the common stereotypes put forth in Hip-Hop (Money, Women, Drugs, less lyricism, etc.)

There is also a heavy difference in production and overall style but I find that much harder to describe as it is easier to have an ear for it.

That's why it becomes much easier to discuss the genre when you divide it into two genres, as the world of music containing rapping has become to diverse and expansive it's hard to tell whether a song is Rap or Pop these days, but when categorizing Hip-Hop there is enough substance needed that you can take a song with rapping in it and divide it into whether or not it is Hip-Hop music vs. anything else ranging from Rap, Pop, Trap, etc. I myself can discuss the history of Hip-Hop for hours but I'm hardly varied in knowledge of Rap music. I hate to sound pretentious but I consider myself an expert in Hip-Hop music and history from roughly 79-98 and it's a huge passion of mine and has been for quite some time.

To give examples of how many have split the genre I can use artists.
Hip-Hop vs Rap is:
Rakim vs. Drake
Gang Starr vs. Childish Gambino
De La Soul vs. Tyga
Del The Funky Homosapien vs. Fetty Wap

of course the lines can become increasingly blurred when it comes to Gangsta Rap but the history there is so expansive and the style so unique I could go as far to consider it a genre on it's own.

That's what people who don't listen to don't understand is how wildly different the music can be when the only similarity is rhyming words together. How someone can listen to a group like EPMD and then attempt to categorize them within' the same genre as an artist like Lil' Jon is beyond me.

Keep in mind this isn't me trying to split Hip-Hop and Rap into two genres between music I think is good and music I don't like it's rather how I view the music truly is categorized, there are plenty of acts I love I'd put into the rap genre (i.e. 2 Live Crew) and vice versa. Although there is an argument for every artist for both categories I suppose, but generally one fits better than the other.

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