Trollheart

I certainly don't mean to be facetious, and I don't mean to denigrate this style of music, but I honestly don't get it. After listening to Merzbow I'm thinking, I could go out and record cars on the road, dogs barking, people laughing, mix it all together and record it, and would that then constitute noise rock? Experimental music? I'm not for one second suggesting that Merzbow has no talent --- he's released hundreds of albums and is very highly respected, so obviously he knows what he's doing --- but Venereology just sounded like noise to me, all the way through. Literally. If there had been someone digging up my garden like when the extension was getting built I could not have distinguished what I was listening to from that outside noise. It really was that bad.

So, what's the attraction? Do people really listen to hours of this for fun? Do people go to see artistes like this perform basically static in concert? If I wanted this kind of sound I could off-tune my radio and leave it between stations. I got nothing out of that album. Nothing. At all. It even made me appreciate Grindcore a little. At least those guys are playing, if not what I would recognise as music. Does Merzbow use instruments? Or so he just use all samples?

This is the kind of thing that, were I a parent and my kid played it, I'd clap my hands to my ears and shout "That's not music! That's just noise! How can you listen to that? How can you call it music?"

So, how can you?

And again, understand I am not sneering at this sort of music. I clearly don't have the ear to distinguish and pick out the nuances, and appreciate the artistry. But what is there in that? What do you hear that I don't? Is it just a musicians thing, that you play so you understand what he's doing? But not all his fans can be musicians.

Also, I don't mean just Merzbow, though this is the first real exposure I've had to this sort of music (and will likely be the last) so I'm using him as my only example. And please don't post loads of videos saying listen to this: I don't want to hear more if it's like that album. I really don't. You won't get me into it. But I am interested as to how other people can listen to it and call it music?

Be nice: I'm not putting down your music, I'm just genuinely baffled as to how anyone gets anything out of it. I'd really like to know.

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

Frownland

Don't go into it expecting to hear conventional music and the rest is easy. Preconceived notions about what makes good music is a bad route to take when you're listening to experimental music. Cage once said developing an ear for musical sounds is like developing an ego, you begin to refuse sounds that are not musical and thus cut yourself out from a great deal of experience. Plus the amount of effort or skill doesn't really matter to me as long as I like the music. I mean, look at Malmsteen's music: takes a lot of skill and practice to get there but on the other hand it sucks ass. In the end it just comes down to personal taste though. I wouldn't expect anyone to enjoy experimental music in the same way I hope they wouldn't expect me to enjoy Van Halen.

Live experiences are a bit different because in that setting you really feel it and it's worlds away from listening to it at home unless you have an amazing system.

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grindy

There's not much to explain. Once you get into it, you start hearing the "sense" in the music and just enjoying it.
If someone is only into softer, more melodic music, all extreme metal might just sound like stupid noise as well, but once you start really listening, you start noticing the structures and the skill involved.
A lot of Merzbow albums are pretty boring and half-assed, but on some of them and especially on his collaborations, you notice how he utilizes his noises in a purposeful, even masterful and often beautiful or just awesomely kick-ass rocking way.
You can't explain such music, one has to experience it like any other music and embrace what's going on. But ultimately it comes down to taste, I'm sure the "weird stuff" isn't just anyone's cup of tea, no matter how open-minded. I'm extremely open-minded and there are lots and lots of styles and genres I simply can't stand.

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Black Francis

Ima say this in the nicest way possible, you seem very narrow minded when it comes to music TH.

You're very dismissive of certain genres, i remember posting alternative vids on your Riff war thread which you instantly dismissed as a crap, hell, you don't even care for watching office space.

This boggles me cause as a member i think you're awesome, personality wise i think you're great but music taste wise you're very hard to relate to.

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EPOCH6

He's not being narrow minded he's asking us to help him understand, he wants to see the appeal.

I've always found the easiest way to explain experimental abrasive styles is by comparing them to horror films, or more so smut / gore films. For a lot of us it isn't about "enjoying" the music in a conventional sense, it's about the experience and impact, visceral emotion, letting the sound get under your skin. When you watch a gore film and feel repulsed, disgusted, and uncomfortable, the film has done its job. Sometimes we don't want to feel good, we just want to feel something intense, that's what extreme music acheives, it stirs up an intense feeling, whether that's being overwhelmed with confusion, getting pumped up, or feeling terrified, disgusted, unsettled, or claustrophobic. People don't go to haunted houses to feel good, they go to feel that visceral rush of terror, its exciting but not happy, people generally don't go to noise music to be impressed musically or feel good, they go to feel something extreme and intense. If you don't welcome those sorts of emotions into your head it's perfectly reasonable that you don't enjoy the music that conjures up those feelings.

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Black Francis

Yea i get that, i called him narrow minded for previous statements he has posted around the forums not because of this thread, at least in this thread he's trying to understand Noise and experimental music and i actually commend him for that.

I like Noise and experimental music but in small doses, i find the beauty in that genre is that the music is a puzzle your mind puts together. it's not music that's easily defined most times you have to familiarize yourself with it for awhile before it starts broadening your horizons.

Im thankful to Sonic youth because they gradually made me appreciate this genre, specifically thankful for the intro to No queen blues



it took me years to hear the groove in that intro at the beginning all i heard was just sh*tty distorted guitars and an awful drummer but now i can appreciate all the nuances of their broken melody.

I think TH needs his own Sonic youth, an artist in this genre that can gradually get him into it.

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Trollheart

To address the bolded bit: I still do not get why the hell it's so important that I should want to watch a film just because a few people tell me I should? I explained myself I think well enough in that thread and I would appreciate you not bringing it up again as an example of my mindset. I do not dismiss movies in general but explained I had neither the time nor the interest in watching it. I should not feel bullied or cajoled into doing something I don't want to do. Suppose I told you you should listen to "Gotterdammerung" or something, something you have no interest (let's assume) in, and no intention of ever being into? Would it bug you if I kept saying "You should listen to it! Why won't you listen to it?" and then other joined in, and you eventually got a sense of people being offended because you would not listen to it? Well that's how I felt about "Office space".

To be perfectly frank, the pressure on me in that thread has only served to ensure I will never watch it, out of spite. If people had said you should watch it and then left it at that, fine, but all I got was "Why won't you watch it?" up to a point where I was almost sneered at for not wanting to watch it. It angered me, and it still does, and I would ask those who pressurised me into trying to watch it to remember not everyone likes the same things they liek and not everyone has the time to "just give it a go". I'm very busy and I'm very picky about what I watch. So anyway, kindly drop that as an example of my being narrow minded. Thanks.

As to that, why is it that I can't say I don't like a particular song/genre but Urban for instance can make a comment like "got through seventeen seconds of a prog song. Rubbish" and nobody calls him out on it? Answer: because he's allowed not to like certain stuff. So am I. So please get off my back. If I don't like your music I don't like your music; you probably feel the same way about stuff I like. We're all different. I don't think I ever labelled any of your music as crap specifically, but even if I did, so what? People have said that about my music. It's their opinion, nothing more, and nothing to get annoyed about.

Thanks. That really helps. Unfortunately I'm not into gore movies, but I do understand what you mean. The kind of "peeping out from between your fingers" thing, yes? Problem is, I didn't get that from Merzbow. I got nothing, only a headache. It literally was noise from the first moment to the last. But thanks for the explanation of what these musicians are trying to do, even if it doesn't do that for me.

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

Urban Hat€monger ?

I would say the reason I can do it is because if I do that I'm only dismissing one song, not the entire genre.
If challenged on it I can give reasons as to why I don't like it and offer an alternative of that genre that I do like, which is something you're unable to do if it's something you're unfamiliar with.

I can dismiss a prog record in 17 seconds but I can also get excited about one in that time too.

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Black Francis

lol i was just giving you sh*t with the office space thing.

im all for you getting into a new genre but if may ask, are you interested in getting into this genre or are you just asking why other people like it?

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"Hey Kids you got to meet the MIGHTY PIXIES!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbRbCtIgW3A

Urban Hat€monger ?

And forget all that noisy stuff that'll do nothing to convince you. Listen to this instead. It's just a guy and a tape recorder and the ambient sound in the room and it eventually transforms into melodies & basslines. It might help you understand what you're looking for when you listen to this stuff.
Don't just dismiss it after 5 mins saying it's boring, turn the lights off, lie down and listen to it the whole way through.



It's one of the most ingenious original albums I have ever heard and it's just one guy saying a sentence over & over.

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