Trollheart

If this is you being nice I'd hate to see you angry!
Your very first response was bull**** and then a tirade at CN telling him why he was wrong. The whole tone of your replies has been "You guys are so stupid and ignorant; you don't get it. Only I can see how great electronic music is" which is certainly combative. Why you assumed my Waits track was a dig at electronic music is beyond me; if you had bothered to read the text before going off on one you would have seen I was not putting electronic music down. I've tried to explore it a little. It's not my favourite genre but I would never put ANY genre down. I don't like jazz or punk or hip-hop but I realise they're very popular and have relevance within music. Nobody should be that close-minded. Just because I don't like something does not make it automatically crap.

But one thing to bear in mind here: your opinion is not the only one that counts, and you seem to think it is. Like Frown said, calm down, take a breath and try to approach this with a degree of maturity instead of firing off on all sides against anyone who even approaches disagreeing with you.

Otherwise nobody will want to talk to you and you'll end up in an empty room talking to yourself.

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

grtwhtgrvty

Spank me daddy. I've been bad.

No I was being nice at first and I transitioned slowly into being mean whilst CN, bit by bit, began losing his mind.

How was it bull****? I'm genuinely confused cause I reread it like 5 times before I posted because I knew how sensitive he was and I wanted to make sure it wasn't rude and he even said himself it was a good post so I'd like an explanation for that pls.

And the second post was me saying that every generation has crappy bubblegum crap and that the top 40 is irrelevant and static and that he should stop focusing on it so I don't know how that is a tirade. You're gonna have to specify tbh.

Specify when I said that pls. It just seems too inaccurate. If anything we were all ganging up on him. I don't think a single person agreed with him. I didn't call anyone stupid or ignorant. Actually he called me that. It may or may not have been implied. But I sure as **** wasn't the only thinking it. I was just the one who implied it. But it was directed at everyone, because everyone was agreeing with me at that point -- maybe not the delivery of the post, sure, but everyone was agreeing with the core points I was making.

What actually happened is that I made a deliberate attempt at being nice, despite disagreeing with him. I didn't insult CN right off the bat. I just kept insulting the guy in the video, and those insults seemed to be area of effect in nature, thus offending CN. He got offended before I was offensive, and then at that point, I viewed him as an easy target, and decided to (successfully) attempt at trolling him further. I did that. I was rude. I was an *******, eventually, yes, you are right, and that may or may not have been wrong, but it's not like I came in guns blazing. I was nice at first. Now -- that being said, it is definitely possible that it came off as me thinking he's an idiot, because I do think that. I do consider him to be an idiot, and I can't control my innate considerations. My instinctive, knee jerk reaction was that he is a moron, a reaction I hold to this very moment. Because of this, it is possible that there may have been some subconscious implications. I'll give you that. That being said, multiple people, him included, said I was good at first, and I didn't throw the first punch. I didn't get offended. I didn't flip out. I debated with someone, they got pissed off, and I trolled them. But I was good at first and I want that to be recognized. I'll take my side of the blame. That being said, I wasn't the one who started it. I understand why you're talking to me, because yes, I was being an ******* in my last chunk of posts. I don't know why noone is telling him to stop freaking out and acting a fool. This is the internet and he's like 8 years older than me. I don't think i'm the one who needs to calm down. Maybe I need to stop amusing myself at the expense of others, but I definitely don't need to calm down.

Because we were talking about the validity of electronic music and you come in talking about something that was used with almost no technology (albeit misinformation, there is clearly a great of production in the video you linked) and in that moment I remembered when you said that you didn't regard noise music as music and it seemed irrelevant because I don't think anyone has, or ever will, discredit like.. orchestral classical music for example.

CoNtrivedNiHilism

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Trollheart

Your first post came across as combative. I've said that already, so how you can call that nice is a mystery to me. You leapt in with both boots, ready to fight and to take on anyone who disagreed with you.

Like I say, your VERY FIRST WORD was literally bull****. Here it is quoted if you don' remember.
Then you go on to say this:
I didn't say it was bull, as in it made no sense: I said it literally was the word you used to begin your reply, as shown above.
It's the tone. You begin a post with the word bull and then go on to use a lot of expletives it's pretty obvious you're angry/upset and het up about the subject.
I don't believe I specifically referred to your second post? Nobody's saying you didn't make good points. Nobody, in fact, is even disagreeing with you about electronic music, just the way you're pushing your opinion as if it were fact.


I'm going to snip most of this because I can't go through the whole thread picking up points and anyway I wasn't even involved in this till you decided to have a go at me over Waits, when all I did was post the video and reference it. Right, so:

You used the words "your dude rock scene" or somesuch, implying CN listened to all that sort of stuff and shouldn't. Now that may have been a generic "your", as in, "your basic person does this" or whatever, but it did not come across like that. You then jumped on him for mentioning Katy Perry, which he did once, and implying he was a fan (not that there's anything wrong with that) which I don't think he is.

However, the fact that you now admit you don't like the guy and are/were trolling him makes much of the rest of the discussion I was going to have with you totally irrelevant, so let's skip to me.

[/quote[]
This I don't understand. Electronic or not, there had been a thread going through the conversation that in order to make music you did not necessarily need computers, software and doodads, just talent, and I proposed Waits's song as an example of that. Of course there's tech there, but not much that I can see: the song survives on its atmosphere and the paranoia the lyric describes. Similarly, I could have posted "Pasties and a g-string" which has only percussion, or "Step right up" which is all bass. The point remains: while some people are undoubtedly talented in creating electronic music (as demonstrated with the JMJ clip, which I notice you ignored) others can create it with very little in the way of tech.

Now you're talking about noise rock. Odd. I believe I said experimental, avant-garde music like Frownland does is not something I understand, and I certainly said I don't regard grindcore as music. But I'm not sure why that is relevant really? Is it because I said I would not put down any genre and this seems to contradict that? Well it doesn't: I, personally, don't view it as music but understand others do, the same way as some electronic music leaves me cold, but I know it's popular. Not entirely sure what orchestral classical music has to do with it either.

Anyhoo, the whole point is that your reaction from the start has been sharp, dismissive and argumentative, even if you don't see it that way. I'm not really interested; I think I complimented your music so I'm not sure why you think I have a problem with you, but your attitude certainly from this thread needs to improve and cool down or people are going to start responding in kind. To say you feel someone is an ******* and will start trolling him without real reason is to me a waste of your time, his and that of anyone else reading or participating in the thread. Surely you have better things to do? I certainly know I have.

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

CoNtrivedNiHilism

Whether or not he was trolling me, I said from the start he wanted a rise out of me, so it's no surprise he'd say he was baiting me along. He went on to ask for praise in his reply to what you said to him, for 'trolling' me and whatever else he felt was accomplished. Has he seen anyone agreeing with him that I'm an idiot, a moron, I'm ignorant, don't know what I'm talking about? Nobody but him has made those claims, and not one person agreed with him on his claims against me thus far. At this point he should just stop. He's new here, and he's going after me, an established member who has good standing with mostly everyone active here, he's going after me for no good reason at all. Do you feel I have been any of the things he says I have been Trollheart? Clearly you do not, as you would have not even posted in reply to how he's handled himself here with words that in no way, shape or form agree with any of the conduct from him in this thread. He says people have agreed with him. Only on what Richard saying being obvious or BS, and that is all. Nobody has disagreed with him about electronic music, as stated by you. There's not other way to view this, other than he's purposely combative to get a rise out of me. He claims he didn't want to offend me from the get go in his first post in this thread, but absolutely every post after it say otherwise one hundred percent so. Even his FIRST post suggested his intent to not offend me, as being an untrue statement.

What exactly dose he hope to say at this point to justify his actions? Absolutely nothing. It's abundantly clear that his intentions were never to find common ground with me, which would be what any person with maturity would do. I genuinely wanted to get along with him, have tried several times. But it is not a possibility, especially now.

Who, aside from him, enjoys taking on the antics of a troll these days anyway? It is such an old, distasteful, stupid thing to pull anymore. He says I'm eight years older than him, so must mean he's at least twenty years of age. People that age, younger, can sometimes be really mature for their age. But for him, it appears that the antics of a juvenile are much to appealing to move on from. I'm not impressed by it, you're not impressed by it, nobody has been impressed by it. And he's going on in his post to you about how proud he is of what he pulled with me, like some juvenile. I mean, really? Who gloats about things like that? A kid, that's who. Someone lacking of any sort of maturity or self respect. He can say whatever more of me he wants after this. But please Trollheart. Don't reply to him beyond what you have. In fact, nobody should. It serves no purpose to encourage him on by replying to him continuously. I'm over it.

In fact. Why not just close this thread? I'm tired of this little game, it took any sort of fun out of it, or desire to have a good conversation about it with the people I intended it for.

But for the record Trollheart. I do appreciate you defending me, though it wasn't needed. I still appreciate it.

Close the thread. I'm done.

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grtwhtgrvty

No, let's keep talking. I'm busy right this second but I'll reply in a few. You're free to go away but I want to keep talking to Troll.

Frownland

How about we keep the thread open and get back on topic.

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

grtwhtgrvty

Don't close the thread.

CoNtrivedNiHilism

How would this even happen with him around? There's no way to ensure he doesn't start a flame war with me unless a mod threatens him with a ban if he keeps with it. I am plenty capable acting like he's not around. But the temptation to reply to something I post I'm sure will lead to him going at it again. This is exactly what would happen every time I talked with Soulflower about something. Soulflower and I are cool now, but this reminds me of what it was like before she left, I couldn't talk to her. It's nice that I can now. But I don't see that happening with grtwhtgrvty.

grtwhtgrvty. Let's try to see if we can find common ground anyway. If you're willing, so am I, but it has to be an honest attempt and you need to make an honest effort to back your compliance with seeing if we can work this out, but showing you are serious about it with your actions after this post.

You want to give it another try at getting along? I can have this all be water under the bridge. All it will take is effort from both of us.

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Frownland

Uh just don't respond to him and he won't perpetuate the discussion with you. Pretty simple.

Anyway, here's some electronic business that I think takes way more skill than any Filter song.

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.