Icon vs Legend (subjective or objective terms?) Which one is more enduring?

Pet_Sounds · 11-24-2014, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

I'm French Canadian and can't stand Celine Dion.

I'm so confused now....

You're French Canadian? Sacrebleu, mon amie!

Mondo Bungle · 11-24-2014, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

Now you know you need to stop trolling lol

remember kids, facts is trolls

Do you listen to a lot of traditional klezmer? No? So you're a Nazi? Is that how we play the game?

Urban Hat€monger ? · 11-25-2014, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

Just because you have no interest in Janet Jackson does not make her any less Iconic. You seem to not like popular music overall and that is fine but don't be a snob.

I like how you totally ignored everything I said about Cyndi Lauper even though I said I had no interest in either artist. Also I never said she wasn't iconic for that reason. I said the reasons I didn't think she was is because the reasons you stated were nowhere near convincing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

I think I have done a good job in showing important Iconic things associated with her, music and just things she has done overall that have been iconic.

She had a successful album & tour and wore an outfit, wow.
I gave you another example of another female artist with a similar length career who has done all that too and who has more recognisable songs and stated that I didn't think she was an icon so what did Janet do that was so iconic. Perfectly legitimate question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

A lot of people always use this argument when it comes to Janet but the funny thing is, all the Jackson's have released solo albums so why is that Janet Jackson is the only one that has been successful outside of Michael?

To argue that her last name is why she is successful is absurd and a cop out because if that were case the other Jackson's would have been just as successful but they have not.

Her last name did probably give her a record deal but it most certainly did not make her an Icon. It most certainly is not the reason why she is one of the biggest selling artists of all time. If anything, it probably was much harder for her because of her last name and her more famous brother. She had to prove herself and...she did. She became a superstar and an Icon in her own right.

If her last name is why she is an Icon, why isnt La Toya, Jermaine, Rebbie, etc all solo artist Icons?

I said it gets her a pass, I didn't say it makes her an icon. You think anybody would even know the first names of any of those you listed with the careers they had if they didn't have the Jackson surname?
Turn up at a record company with that name and you're pretty much guaranteed a contract and publicity that no other act would get.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

Silly argument.

It is, but that's because it's one invented in your head and bares little resemblance to anything I've actually said, like most of the things I say to you actually. You cherrypick a few words, take them grossly out of context and ignore the rest. Your usual tactic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soulflower

Just because you don't listen to her music or don't want to listen to her music outside of rock doesn't mean she is not an Icon.

I'll just quote this from a post I made a few days ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

I grew up listening to my Mum & Dad's huge singles collections as they only owned a handful of albums between them.
Actually I'm glad I did too I had a much more varied selection to choose from as they pretty much had every genre of music that got into the charts from the late 50s to the late 70s.

I'm so glad I wasn't indoctrinated on just rock music, I think it's made me appreciate so much more stuff.

Mr. Red · 11-25-2014, 06:50 AM

It's all subjective, each artist has their own fan base that view them as icons. Long ago I used to think MJ was the best ever, but as I grew older and listened to more music his music grew out of me. I think he is a great entertainer/dancer but not all that musically talented. Most of his songs sound very lame to me nowadays. There are also old rock bands like KISS, and Poison, who thanks to their imagery, still have their fan base that considers them icons, but to me they are just clowns.

The only current mainstream artist that I would personally consider a future legend is Kanye West. To me he is also a lot more musically talented than MJ, and he doesn't rely on imagery or dancing and grabbing his crotch in order to impress people like MJ, Kiss, and Poison do. Kanye actually has quality music to back it up.

neardeathexperience · 11-25-2014, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Red

It's all subjective, each artist has their own fan base that view them as icons. Long ago I used to think MJ was the best ever, but as I grew older and listened to more music his music grew out of me. I think he is a great entertainer/dancer but not all that musically talented. Most of his songs sound very lame to me nowadays. There are also old rock bands like KISS, and Poison, who thanks to their imagery, still have their fan base that considers them icons, but to me they are just clowns.

The only current mainstream artist that I would personally consider a future legend is Kanye West. To me he is also a lot more musically talented than MJ, and he doesn't rely on imagery or dancing and grabbing his crotch in order to impress people like MJ, Kiss, and Poison do. Kanye actually has quality music to back it up.

Ha I thought you were talking about Mick Jagger when you said MJ.....

Kanye has the music to back it up? Man I saw that fool on Saturday Night Live and if that is an example of having music to back it up I'm sticking with those clowns Kiss.

**Frownland** · 11-25-2014, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neardeathexperience

Ha I thought you were talking about Mick Jagger when you said MJ.....

Kanye has the music to back it up? Man I saw that fool on Saturday Night Live and if that is an example of having music to back it up I'm sticking with those clowns Kiss.

I'm absolutely stunned that you don't like Kanye.

YorkeDaddy · 11-25-2014, 06:50 PM

A lot of the time when people talk about John Cage I think they're talking about John Cale.

Just wanted to say that.

And also that John Cale is a legend. And an icon. And Janet Jackson is not lmfao

DwnWthVwls · 11-25-2014, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

I'm absolutely stunned that you don't like Kanye.

His production is on point. He's a ****ty MC and his lyrics are trash, and if he doesn't write them than he's even less of an MC.

Zhanteimi · 11-25-2014, 06:54 PM

John CALE is amazing, of course. John CAGE is a pretentious twat.

The Batlord · 11-25-2014, 06:54 PM

Vanilla Ice is more of an icon than Janet Jackson. Even after all these years, his fame hasn't really diminished any, and "Ice, Ice Baby" is still as ubiquitous as ever, even if a lot of people just know the chorus and that bass line. He's pretty much the ultimate posterboy of the one-hit wonder in a way that eclipses many established and respected artists.

11-25-2014, 06:50 AM	#134 (permalink)
Mr. Red Groupie Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 34	It's all subjective, each artist has their own fan base that view them as icons. Long ago I used to think MJ was the best ever, but as I grew older and listened to more music his music grew out of me. I think he is a great entertainer/dancer but not all that musically talented. Most of his songs sound very lame to me nowadays. There are also old rock bands like KISS, and Poison, who thanks to their imagery, still have their fan base that considers them icons, but to me they are just clowns. The only current mainstream artist that I would personally consider a future legend is Kanye West. To me he is also a lot more musically talented than MJ, and he doesn't rely on imagery or dancing and grabbing his crotch in order to impress people like MJ, Kiss, and Poison do. Kanye actually has quality music to back it up. Last edited by Mr. Red; 11-25-2014 at 07:05 AM.

11-25-2014, 06:54 PM	#139 (permalink)
Zhanteimi Mord Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Tokyo Posts: 4,873	John CALE is amazing, of course. John CAGE is a pretentious twat.