What is music, what is not?

**Frownland** · 10-12-2014, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

I know.

See, those two parts of the sentence are mutually exclusive to me, at least if you insert "just" before noise. I used to think Slayer was just noise, but I've grown to see the melody in their music. I genuinely went in with as open a mind as I could with Cryptopsy, but the moment it began I was all "What the **** is this ****? This ain't music!" I don't consider EVERYTHING to be music. I guess it would be nice if I could, like you, but I can't. If I hear raindrops that's not music. It's a nice sound but it's just noise. Now I could play music against it and the raindrops might I don't know, counterpoint the underlying metaphor of the melody, or something, and make sense. But not on their own. Lots of noises are like this to me. The sound of a car on the road, the dog barking in next door's garden, someone coughing up their guts in the street ... these things are not, to me, music.

No it isn't. Not to me. The point you may be missing here (or not, maybe I'm misreading) is that not everyone sees the world as you do, and while you're perfectly entitled to hear music in every single sound you hear, I am just as entitled to say I don't. I don't think you're saying I'm not, but it feels a little preachy, which is I'm sure not how you intend it to come off.

Yeah that's pretty much it. I know it is technically music, cos they're playing instruments (I assume) but it is not any music I recognise as such.

Oh crap! He's on to us!

Well only the first statement applied to you but feel free to learn from the rest of my post. A broader perspective opens the door to some great music.

grindy · 10-12-2014, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Thanks man. Ja Ribot is a ****ing god, hes the biggest influence on my playing aside from Keiji Haino and Derek Bailey. His style is really fresh and that's something I try to capture.

Seems like we're on the same page when it comes to guitarists.
I think I personally would add Fred Frith among my guitar heroes. Well, among some others as well.

Have you ever tried to emulate Bailey's style? I imagine it to be incredibly difficult.

Oriphiel · 10-12-2014, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

No it isn't. Not to me. The point you may be missing here (or not, maybe I'm misreading) is that not everyone sees the world as you do, and while you're perfectly entitled to hear music in every single sound you hear, I am just as entitled to say I don't. I don't think you're saying I'm not, but it feels a little preachy, which is I'm sure not how you intend it to come off.

I think random sounds do count as music. After all, people buy ambiance tracks all the time. In a way, simultaneously everything and nothing is art, and that applies to aural art as well. As long as we exist to perceive it, that is.

grindy · 10-12-2014, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Can I just also take the time to congratulate Machine? Less than 20 posts and he (or she) has begun a thread that is not only well-thought-out, but has a lot of proper activity and has got us talking seriously about music again. Well done!

I second that.
Great topic.
I've been often thinking about it, but rarely had the opportunity for discussion. Feels great to have it now.

**Frownland** · 10-12-2014, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

Seems like we're on the same page when it comes to guitarists.
I think I personally would add Fred Frith among my guitar heroes. Well, among some others as well.

Have you ever tried to emulate Bailey's style? I imagine it to be incredibly difficult.

Frith is awesome too, but not a huge influence on me. My acoustic guitar stylings tend to be Bailey-esque, but I throw in a little more soul.

Machine · 10-12-2014, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Can I just also take the time to congratulate Machine? Less than 20 posts and he (or she) has begun a thread that is not only well-thought-out, but has a lot of proper activity and has got us talking seriously about music again. Well done!

Thanks a lot
That means a lot I'm pretty new to music forums, but I've always loved music so much I'm glad I was able to bring an interesting thread seeing as its a topic I talk about all the time.

Machine · 10-12-2014, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

I think random sounds do count as music. After all, people buy ambiance tracks all the time. In a way, simultaneously everything and nothing is art, and that applies to aural art as well. As long as we exist to perceive it, that is.

As far as ambient music goes I do believe in the grand scheme of things it can be the thing that I'll say probably broadens the definition the widest mainly due to the field recordings and lowercase music that goes along with it. That does not however always make it interesting, but that's another thread entirely.

Oriphiel · 10-12-2014, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machine

As far as ambient music goes I do believe in the grand scheme of things it can be the thing that I'll say probably broadens the definition the widest mainly due to the field recordings and lowercase music that goes along with it. That does not however always make it interesting, but that's another thread entirely.

Yeah. They may as well make the definition of music "You'll know it when you hear it", as the preferences of the observer are what ultimately define the sounds around them as "music" in their opinion.

Machine · 10-12-2014, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

Yeah. They may as well make the definition of music "You'll know it when you hear it", as the preferences of the observer are what ultimately define the sounds around them as "music" in their opinion.

Ha you're right it really does come down to personal preference for most people it seems. I have friends who would say that some of Yankee Hotel Foxtrot isn't real music so again as I said earlier it's purely subjective.

Ninetales · 10-12-2014, 06:08 PM

imo it's not music unless it's played with a guitar and that's MY OPINION and you cant change it because its mine and if you disagree well its just my opinion. that's what music is to me.

10-12-2014, 06:08 PM	#60 (permalink)
Ninetales Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: livin wild Posts: 2,179	imo it's not music unless it's played with a guitar and that's MY OPINION and you cant change it because its mine and if you disagree well its just my opinion. that's what music is to me.