What is music, what is not?

**Frownland** · 12-26-2014, 12:35 AM

Some things seem pretty obvious to me that you're not picking up but I'm doing my best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mordwyr

No.

Well what, then, would you call music? Like what's the definition for you? Or if it's easier (but you still must explain why), what is not?

Machine · 12-26-2014, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mordwyr

I don't know how to explain the obvious. Sorry.

Field recordings have always been a part of music, there a genres devoted to it such as lowercase music. So I don't know how it's obvious in fact that seems a little arrogant, especially to the people who are fans of artists who specialize in the style.

**Frownland** · 12-26-2014, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overcast

I love field recordings of all kinds so I decided to check out 4'33" after all the debating in this thread. I side with Frownland on this being a form of music but I think it simply wasn't very interesting or pleasing.

Different question entirely, and I would probably agree with you in most cases. I feel like a lot of the time I'll snap out of my zone and start to notice the sounds around me and really enjoy them though. I consider that to be outside of 4'33" (it's meant to be done with performers), but it's the same concept so it still applies.

Zhanteimi · 12-26-2014, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machine

Field recordings have always been a part of music

As a part of music, of course! Music in and of itself? No.

**Frownland** · 12-26-2014, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mordwyr

As a part of music, of course! Music in and of itself? No.

Well the piece isn't silent, the performers just are. Silence doesn't exist.

EDIT: Thought you were referring to 4'33". But if a violin solo was nonexistant before the orchestra, would a song of solo violin no longer be considered music? Now, your view is hard for me to grasp because it's not the listener's decision to decide if something's music or not, same with anything else. I think only the art suffers when you try to put it in a box.

Zhanteimi · 12-26-2014, 12:39 AM

Silence does exist, just not in our material reality that we know.

**Frownland** · 12-26-2014, 12:44 AM

I guess it goes back to the "if a tree falls" question. The point of the piece is that we should understand that there really is a lot going on within a supposed silence. Since we will never be outside of that experience, we will never know silence. This gives the piece noise in some sense because there will be a listener who inherently makes noise with their bodily functions.

Man I'm too drunk to be this pretentious right now. I'll pick this up tomorrow, I've a long train ride.

Machine · 12-26-2014, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mordwyr

As a part of music, of course! Music in and of itself? No.

Absolutely it is! Many compositions are just field recordings, and I didn't specify but lowercase is electronically manipulated field recordings.

**Frownland** · 12-26-2014, 12:47 AM

I'd like you to answer this mordwyr. Not trying to start a ****storm or anything. This is more of an interesting acid rain

. Really though, I love these types of debates and I'd like to know more about the other side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Well what, then, would you call music? Like what's the definition for you? Or if it's easier (but you still must explain why), what is not?

Overcast · 12-26-2014, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mordwyr

As a part of music, of course! Music in and of itself? No.

Hm? I disagree.

Natural sounds of nature such as rain, bird song, wind chimes, leaves rustling, rivers flowing and all that stuff is some of the most beautiful stuff I've heard. Several elements of nature or really anything can come together and it makes me feel emotion. It is able to enhance our music but sometimes it stands alone perfectly. Silence is kind of an instrument within itself. Simple white noise can be beautiful. The silence provides a platform for the subtle beauty of sound. Field recordings of just random people talking, a busy street or a place can hold weight and listening quality. Field recordings are in my opinion a great form of music. Maybe it's not exactly in the same way music as instruments/structure, but it holds the same purpose for me.

Some beautiful demonstration of the power of silence in this track here. Holds more weight with a full listen of the album, but still...

12-26-2014, 12:44 AM	#417 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	I guess it goes back to the "if a tree falls" question. The point of the piece is that we should understand that there really is a lot going on within a supposed silence. Since we will never be outside of that experience, we will never know silence. This gives the piece noise in some sense because there will be a listener who inherently makes noise with their bodily functions. Man I'm too drunk to be this pretentious right now. I'll pick this up tomorrow, I've a long train ride. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

12-26-2014, 12:39 AM	#416 (permalink)
Zhanteimi Mord Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Tokyo Posts: 4,873	Silence does exist, just not in our material reality that we know.