Mondo Bungle

well how about that

__________________

Rexx Shredd

Told ya' it was sexxy.....

__________________
OK :)

URBAN SHOKKER -- Old School P-Funk Style FUNK -- out NOW on Carbon 12 Records

Lisnaholic

After the intellectual hothouse debate about 4´33", here´s something that keeps things refreshingly simple; a leisurely illustration of sounds as music, filmed among the Malinke people in Mali :-

__________________
"Am I enjoying this moment? I know of it and perhaps that is enough." - Sybille Bedford, 1953

Chula Vista

That was great. Reminded me of Carnatic music.

__________________

“The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well,
on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away
and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

Frownland

That was incredible, I really enjoyed that. John Cage would cry tears of joy if he saw that.

I mean it's obviously edited and planned for music beyond silence (at least past the first four minutes of the video), but why do you enjoy this and not 4'33"? Or do you think they're both great? The beginning of the video was great, for me, because it sounded like you were just sitting in the middle of the village listening to all the tradesman doing their thing and it just worked out perfectly in rhythm. It was a moment like that where John Cage thought to himself (something along the lines of) "holy shit that counts too doesn't it? Fuck those who say it doesn't, I'm going to show them why this is incredible."

For a little bit of background on John Cage so you can understand his (and my) position on 4'33", he was a fan of indeterminacy. Indeterminacy is where you don't know what's going to happen in the piece, usually done through chance operations where the composer will compose a piece until he comes to a question, at which point he turns to a somewhat random way of answering that question. That question could be what note to play, what interval to jump, what period to rest or play at; the answer could be provided by something like the I Ching (as Cage used), an abacus, a coin flip, a random numbers table, or a function generator. Given that 4'33" is really the most aleoteric piece Cage ever wrote (and he used this method for the greater part of his work), what makes this piece different from "Music of Changes"?

If 4'33" were played during the first four minutes and thirty three seconds of Lisnahoic's video while a local musician started talking to you (there is some clearly planned percussion that occurs after the four minute mark which is why I make this distinction), would you consider it music? If not, do you think you would reach a decision to find a kind of middle ground, like musical, but not music?

It's a happy day when you're like "ja, 4'33" is musc", I'm just helping you feel that happiness, brother. I was once like you.

__________________

Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Chula Vista

4'33 is a performance piece about the 'concept' of music. I'll give it props for that.

But in and of itself? It ain't music.

Lisnaholic's clip is music. Beautiful music.

__________________

“The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well,
on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away
and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

Frownland

Well, to be fair, 4'33" is pointing the lens at what's beyond the piece. So what of the noises outside of a performance of 4'33"? If they are rhythmic and sound cool, like what could (and, in my experience, has) happen(ed) in the early stages of that video, are they music?

EDIT: Forgive my Socratic method, I just feel it's the only way to convert you to the Church of Cage.

__________________

Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Zhanteimi

4'33" is not music.

Machine

Yeah I really like his ideology of what music is and it really opened my eyes to a lot of things that I might not have considered music before.

__________________
boost my ego

listen to me stroke my delay pedal

ever wanted to hear death grips songs... but they're acoustic? me neither.

Frownland

I highly recommend reading Cage's book 'Silence and Other Lectured' or 'Conversing With Cage'. Both are incredibly fascinating and eye opening.

Why not? I've yet to be convinced otherwise, increasingly so after learning more about Cage's intentions. Really, what's the point in arbitrarily drawing a line? You could rule out a Capella music, instrumental music, tape/electronic music, noise music, and a wealth of other types of art by stomping your foot and going 'na ah' when someone asks 'is it music?'

__________________

Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.