What is music, what is not?

**Frownland** · 12-13-2014, 10:47 PM

Well I didn't say they sounded different, actually I said ideally they sound the same, but rather that any difference is present at all.

The Batlord · 12-13-2014, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

The number of performers, the instruments, the length of the piece, how the piece looks, and the experience of the composers could all differentiate from one silent piece to another.

Which is relevant, how? If there is no sound, it wouldn't matter if it was John Cage up on stage, or me. Seriously, for this to not just be an exercise in being pretentious, then it shouldn't matter one bit who's on stage.

Quote:

Are the noises that the performers are making identical to one another? (Ideally) yes. Is it redundant to write it down? Maybe, depends on the piece for me. Is it a composition? **** yes it is.

So, all that something has to be to be a composition, is a collection of symbols on a page? Cause that's all they are if they're not actually causing anything to happen.

Mondo Bungle · 12-13-2014, 10:50 PM

But is that not all that written music is

Machine · 12-13-2014, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Which is relevant, how? If there is no sound, it wouldn't matter if it was John Cage up on stage, or me. Seriously, for this to not just be an exercise in being pretentious, then it shouldn't matter one bit who's on stage.

So, all that something has to be to be a composition, is a collection of symbols on a page? Cause that's all they are if they're not actually causing anything to happen.

But if they were put together maybe in the way the conductor would conduct or what not. Applebaum has a piece for three composers and no players and based on their reactions is what the music is.

The Batlord · 12-13-2014, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mondo Bungle

But is that not all that written music is

If it's not producing sound, then yes it is. A pause is not a pause if it isn't pausing anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machine

But if they were put together maybe in the way the conductor would conduct or what not. Applebaum has a piece for three composers and no players and based on their reactions is what the music is.

What?

**Frownland** · 12-13-2014, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Which is relevant, how? If there is no sound, it wouldn't matter if it was John Cage up on stage, or me.

It's relevant because it makes the experience different from performance to performance if those changes are made. You said that there was no difference at all, which is not true for reasons you quoted.

Quote:

So, all that something has to be to be a composition, is a collection of symbols on a page? Cause that's all they are if they're not actually causing anything to happen.

Well it's a guideline for the performers, so the piece is causing them to abstain from playing their instruments for the duration of the piece. Not to mention the differences that I pointed out before changing the group altogether. I think it's also important to consider the perspective of the performer in these types of compositions, whereas you're viewing it solely from a listener's perspective, which may be why we see the situation so differently.

Chula Vista · 12-13-2014, 10:56 PM

Good night MB. I'm old and tired, it's been a long day, and I'm gonna veg out in front of the tube for a while.

See ya'll tomorrow!

(4'33 is NOT f*cking music!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Mondo Bungle · 12-13-2014, 10:57 PM

Written music is only a series of commands. What if I went up to someone and told them to do absolutely nothing?

The music is in one way or another telling the performer not to do anything for a moment. That's not eloquent I guess, but that's what's happening.

**Frownland** · 12-13-2014, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

(4'33 is NOT f*cking music!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Ja, I agree. Conceptual pieces don't do well in the bedroom. Funk is the way to go.

Machine · 12-13-2014, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

If it's not producing sound, then yes it is. A pause is not a pause if it isn't pausing anything.

What?

Yeah that was a bit muddled sorry. What I was trying to say was that a silent composition can be carried out by an orchestra, but the intent of the notes or lack-there-of may be for the conductor to carry out. For example Mark Applebaum has a piece where no notes are played but there are three conductors carrying out their own interpretations of what the music would be conducted like of musicians were playing along with the composition.

12-13-2014, 10:47 PM	#351 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Well I didn't say they sounded different, actually I said ideally they sound the same, but rather that any difference is present at all. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

12-13-2014, 10:56 PM	#357 (permalink)
Chula Vista Toasted Poster Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SoCal by way of Boston Posts: 11,332	Good night MB. I'm old and tired, it's been a long day, and I'm gonna veg out in front of the tube for a while. See ya'll tomorrow! (4'33 is NOT f*cking music!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) __________________ “The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”