What is music, what is not?

DwnWthVwls · 10-12-2014, 01:12 PM

Okay I see what your saying. Maybe if I forced myself to listen to more of it I would start to recognize some of the patterns they use. I was just looking at from a first time listener's perspective but I think you make a solid argument.

I still won't be force feeding it to myself to try and like it. Just not my thing, heh.

grindy · 10-12-2014, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Okay I see what your saying. Maybe if I forced myself to listen to more of it I would start to recognize some of the patterns they use. I was just looking at from a first time listener's perspective but I think you make a solid argument.

I still won't be force feeding it to myself to try and like it. Just not my thing, heh.

Yeah, forcing oneself would be weird.
But who knows, you might come to enjoy music you wouldn't deem possible enjoying now. If someone told me, what I'd be listening to ten or even five years ago I'd laugh in their face.

Trollheart · 10-12-2014, 01:28 PM

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Originally Posted by grindy

Why do you tend to call it "not music" instead of "music I don't like" or "music I can't get into"?
Also there is lots of music without harmony, that I think anyone would still consider music. Indian music does not employ harmony, as far as I know.

Precisely because of what I said. There are a lot of genres/subgenres I can't get into -- hip hop, punk, jazz --- but I would never say they were not music. But to me (and I stress the "to me" part; this is my opinion and how I see it, and nobody can change that only me if I decide I want to look at it another way) grindcore (sorry Jansz but I was asked) is just noise. To me (again, to me) there is no rhythm or melody in it. I'm not denying it's there and that other people can hear, even categorise it (Cryptosy is better than Three Screaming Idiots or whatever) but I, personally, cannot and never will. To me, the difference between the sound grindcore makes and that of a car accident is minimal. I understand people find that hard to credit.

Look at it this way: somebody hates jazz. I put on let's say free jazz. This other body says "God that's just noise!" I can respond by saying "I don't like it but you can hear it's music not noise. Listen to the piano, the sax, the drums" etc. Now with grindcore (again, sorry but it's the one) I could not answer that same accusation. I could not break the music down, because to me it is not music and I have no way to, if you like, justify or legitimise it. It's purely noise, to me and my unnamed listening partner. It's not music I don't like --- I could put on a punk record and say I hate this music, but it would not be noise --- it's just noise. To me.

Quote:

And give banging dustbin lids while screaming at the top of your voice while your cat wails at the sound a chance. It might be fun and sound cool.

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Originally Posted by Pet_Sounds

I'm sure Frownland would love it.

So you two will buy my album then?

Machine · 10-12-2014, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Okay I see what your saying. Maybe if I forced myself to listen to more of it I would start to recognize some of the patterns they use. I was just looking at from a first time listener's perspective but I think you make a solid argument.

I still won't be force feeding it to myself to try and like it. Just not my thing, heh.

I don't think that forcing something on yourself like experimental music is necessarily a good thing while I do believe that anyone can come to love it. I never liked hip-hop but by just finding artists who I could relate to other genres that I did like I eased myself into it, and it didn't feel forced.

grindy · 10-12-2014, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Precisely because of what I said. There are a lot of genres/subgenres I can't get into -- hip hop, punk, jazz --- but I would never say they were not music. But to me (and I stress the "to me" part; this is my opinion and how I see it, and nobody can change that only me if I decide I want to look at it another way) grindcore (sorry Jansz but I was asked) is just noise. To me (again, to me) there is no rhythm or melody in it. I'm not denying it's there and that other people can hear, even categorise it (Cryptosy is better than Three Screaming Idiots or whatever) but I, personally, cannot and never will. To me, the difference between the sound grindcore makes and that of a car accident is minimal. I understand people find that hard to credit.

Look at it this way: somebody hates jazz. I put on let's say free jazz. This other body says "God that's just noise!" I can respond by saying "I don't like it but you can hear it's music not noise. Listen to the piano, the sax, the drums" etc. Now with grindcore (again, sorry but it's the one) I could not answer that same accusation. I could not break the music down, because to me it is not music and I have no way to, if you like, justify or legitimise it. It's purely noise, to me and my unnamed listening partner. It's not music I don't like --- I could put on a punk record and say I hate this music, but it would not be noise --- it's just noise. To me.

So you two will buy my album then?

Thanks for elaborating. And you really don't have to stress that it's just a personal opinion, there's nothing wrong with it, although sadly there are lots of snobs out there who would say there is.

I wouldn't blindly buy it, but I wouldn't dismiss it because of it's concept and give it a try. I think I actually do have several albums along the lines of trashcan-banging and top-of-the-lung-screaming, although to my knowledge no felines were involved.

grindy · 10-12-2014, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machine

I don't think that forcing something on yourself like experimental music is necessarily a good thing while I do believe that anyone can come to love it. I never liked hip-hop but by just finding artists who I could relate to other genres that I did like I eased myself into it, and it didn't feel forced.

I sometimes come across people at concerts of experimental music, who give the impression to just be there, because it's supposed to be intellectual and classy. No enjoyment, no feeling for the beauty of the music, just cold calculation.
A sad sight.

Machine · 10-12-2014, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

I sometimes come across people at concerts of experimental music, who give the impression to just be there, because it's supposed to be intellectual and classy. No enjoyment, no feeling for the beauty of the music, just cold calculation.
A sad sight.

Honestly those kind of people annoy me because there's no reason to act like something your not. I was raised on experimental, krautrock, garage rock, punk, electronic, and anything else so for me it feels right to me I hear things in that type of music that most people won't, as I said before that is what I was raised on.

grindy · 10-12-2014, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machine

Honestly those kind of people annoy me because there's no reason to act like something your not. I was raised on experimental, krautrock, garage rock, punk, electronic, and anything else so for me it feels right to me I hear things in that type of music that most people won't, as I said before that is what I was raised on.

As someone who grew up with mainstream music I'm curious:
Were you able to enjoy the more free-form, far-out stuff as a child?

Machine · 10-12-2014, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grindy

As someone who grew up with mainstream music I'm curious:
Were you able to enjoy the more free-form, far-out stuff as a child?

I LOVED krautrock growing up Can was one of my favorite bands I would sing Mushroom at school and Kraftwerk too! I also had my mom who listened to radio more so I also had that, so it kind of evened up to my tastes now.

grindy · 10-12-2014, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machine

I LOVED krautrock growing up Can was one of my favorite bands I would sing Mushroom at school and Kraftwerk too! I also had my mom who listened to radio more so I also had that, so it kind of evened up to my tastes now.

Sounds like a cool childhood.

I am madly in love (sounds like hyperbole, but it's the best way to describe my feelings) with Can, although it started in my late teens and I remember being somewhat annoyed and bored by them on first listen.